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ParaNet file on The Crucible
===========================================================================THE CRUCIBLE <ParaNet Pi>-244-9999 - 24Hrs - 12/24/96 *HST*
(1:223/264)=========================================================================== The foing file contains selected excerpts
from phoneconversations I had with Robert Swan during the month of December.Bill Cooper both supplie with his name, whereabouts, and "co
de"by which Robert Swan was to know that it was okay to divulge informationto me regarding his knowl of what Bill Cooper had discussed w
ith him. As Bill Cooper did not have Swan's phone number, I had to findthat out for myself. Aionally, Bill has asked that I not p
rint Swan's address, as he does not want this individual "harassed". For those whoare serious about ing to the truth of the matter, they
will know howto find this individual. There will be no commentary from myself, as the file sdspeak for itself. Anything in [ ] b
rackets will represent clarificationof speech where necessary. Although several calls were made to RtSwan, I have only included the most
revelant material from 2 of them here. The purpose of my communicating with Robert Swan was erifywhether or not Bill Cooper had
indeed shown him certain UFO-relateddocuments (ie. Project Aquarius papers) back in 1972. -Tom Mick
us 1/22/89Note: "........" indicates conversation not reproduced here.Selected Excerpts from Phone Crsation (A) (WITHOUT KNOWING "CODE")
----------------------------------------------------------------------........<MICKUS> "Of course yon't know me. I've been speaking with
Bill Cooper". <SWAN> "Un-huh."<MICKUS> "And you knew him from a while back?" <SWAN> "Yes......<MICKUS> "There's one thing I
wanted to ask you. Bill has decided to go public with all he knows, and has been getting fros sources; about what he kno
ws about the U.S. gov't cover-up..." <SWAN> "Un-huh."<MICKUS> "...with UFOs, that type of thing..." AN> "Un-huh."<MICKUS> "...and as one
of the coroborating sources, he had mentioned your name to myself, and one other person as as I know, about both of you
seeing an Aquarius telex document back in '72. And I just wanted to find out, get confirmatfrom youf that that was true
, that the content in there was what Bill has reproduced." <SWAN> "You know I can't um...I t verify that. I don't recall
that."<MICKUS> "So you don't remember ever seeing anything like that?" <SWAN> "No. I may have. Buf the top [of my head], you know tha
ts been years and years. And I don't, I don't at the present time remember...you kno I remember the circumstances or
something...if you could let me know what the circumstances were, then I could piece itk together. To all of a sudd
en to try and remember something like that... I mean, there's all kinds of discussions that e had in the past, lengthy..
.and so on."<MICKUS> "You mean related to this?" <SWAN> "Ahh, well there was a lot of stuff just as as the carriers [aircraft]
and stuff like that. But..." <MICKUS> "Just dealing with the military though?" <SWAN> "Yeah. ...but anything that... He was always very
above-board with stuff. As far as classified stuff, when I was on the...I think he on the Enterprise...I don't remembe
r, but I was on board one time, and we were going through...he was showing me around stuff, and there was areas that he
had access to that naturally I wouldn't. I know his knowledge is definitely there."<MICKUS> you can attest to that he has, or di
d have this, high security rating that would give him access to..." <SWAN> "Oh yeah. Sh*t .<MICKUS> "...cause he's come out an
d said that he's got 4 different military intelligence sources." <SWAN> "Right. Well he wasthe Air Force, the Navy... anyway,
right now I can't really recall the...if I remember the circumstances maybe I could p it back together...I'll thi
nk about it...but as far as the UFO stuff, that...that was pretty much hearsay from what wasng on on the carriers and st
uff."<MICKUS> "You mean from Bill, or from other people?" <SWAN> "From Bill, yeah."<MICKUS> "Okay, is the one thing he mentioned. The
year was 1972 and it was an Aquarius-telex. Now I imagine if you did see this thing,would probably stick in your mind...
" <SWAN> "Yeah..."<MICKUS> "you know, about exchange of technology between Alien groups, Prt Plato, then there was a Project Si
gma about establishing communications, Project Redlight to test fly Alien aircraft, there was the Project Snowbird to c
over that up, and that was about all that was in the Aquarius document." <SWAN> "Yeah."<MIC "But that doesn't ring a bell?" <S
WAN> "No it doesn't."........<MICKUS> "But you say it could be true though?" <SWAN> "Oh yeah, it cobe true, sure. He was really into th
at. You know, I mean as far as... yeah he was really interested in that kind of sh*tt I don't recall seeing that. And
like you said, if I had, it probably would stick in my mind. However, if I remember thrcumstances, like I said, maybe
I could piece it back together, but right now..."<MICKUS> "About Bill's involvement, would you shat he's pretty level-headed
about it? Was he talking about it all the time?" <SWAN> "No, I'd say he was pretty level headed abit."........ <SWAN> "Well he certai
nly had access to a lot of information. I'm aware of that."........ <SWAN> "Basically what d gathered from him is on the space
shots and so on, from tracking and so on...the sightings that have been seen from asauts in space, you know, communicati
ons on board...just the sightings and so on. And I think thats what got his interestng on the thing. Navigation, he was
a navigator I believe, and so he had all that front-line communication stuff going."KUS> "I'm just curious, but is he bo
und by any,...I know there are various regulations and this type of thing. But concely could he be in any hot water over
..." <SWAN> "I would say so. Right off the top [of my head]". He's no longer in the militar he?<MICKUS> "No..."........========
=============================================================Selected Excerpts from Phone ConversatiB) (WITH "CODE" THIS TIME)----------
-----------------------------------------------------------........<MICKUS> "The reason why Bill doe want you to get in touch with
him in the immediate interim, is because he has to get independent verification that he dee these particular document
s so many years ago. Now you personally haven't spoken with him, or corresponded for how lonuld you say?" <SWAN> "Twel
ve, thirteen years."........<MICKUS> "...the night before he was to get married, he apparently old you "on the eve of his wedding",
that was to be the code or whatever,...that you originally weren't supposed to tellone about this because it was just c
onfidential between both of you. But he was telling me about when he had his house u Aeia Heights Dr....[Bill Said] " I
lived only a few houses below him, it was at night, we had a few drinks, I showed hie documents and gave him a c
opy of it. And we talked for about an hour about it. I asked him to never to discuss it withone as it was Top Secret. An
d then we never discussed it again after that." <SWAN> "Right."<MICKUS> "So do you remembert?" <SWAN> "I remember something to
that effect, yup."<MICKUS> "And he said in the document, the coversheet said Majesty, it hagma, Redlight, Snowbird, Luna, Delta
, NRO, Pluto, Plato, Pounce and a description of the aliens and other info in it..."... <SWAN> "There's been lots of di
scussion and stuff, but as far as anything other than like you just said...really minor momentarily talking about...that's a
ll well and good. But as far as going into depth and knowing exactly what all that s is, I don't."<MICKUS> "He said he d
id give you a copy of something." <SWAN> "You know, I don't recall that. He possibly could have. Th instance [of the meeting] I re
member that occuring. But I don't remember him giving me a copy of anything because of is involvement with...he was with CI
NCPACFLT then, and I don't really... He might have shown me that, but I don't... he r gave me a copy of it that I recall
. If he had of, I would have definitely had it stashed some place, and probably woulve lost it by now anyway."<MICKUS> "
But theoretically it could be buried away somewhere in your old records?" <SWAN> "I've beerough stuff over the last ten - fift
een years, and I a haven't come across it. But there's been stuff that Bill's shown n UFO stuff so..."........<MICKUS> "
...is there anything that you can specifically remember that can be shown... Basically what trying to determine is; Yes,
you did see this particular document. Now I want to know that besides the fact that; Yes, ynd Bill were talking about t
he subject of...and..., this type of thing." <SWAN> "We were talking about the subject of UFOs quitbit, and his interest in the
m and all that. As far as all of the stuff that was Top Secret, whatever, there was stuff the had told me and that he co
uldn't say anything about, and so... And as far as getting a copy of some document, I don't really recall that, I may have s
een it...but... And that period right before his wedding and all that, I remember thuite well."<MICKUS> "So if I take yo
u back to that specific evening on Aeia Heights, and you are both talking over drinks, and B comes out and shows you this
one set of documents. Do you not specifically recall that? Because that is importa <SWAN> "I specifically recall him
showing me something, but as far as him giving me a copy, I don't recall."<MICKUS> "Well, fo about the copy part..." <SWAN> "As
far as the exact Project and all of that, I can't really...if there was something in court omething and they would say,
'positively do you remember reading blah blah blah', and honestly I cannot."<MICKUS> "So hould you characterize those documents
? If you were to put it into your own sentence as to what he showed you, what would say?" <SWAN> "Right off the top,\ '
He showed me some papers with a bunch of stuff on it.' But as far as what it was, as r as what the Projects and stuff tha
t you were talking about...that doesn't ring a bell to me."<MICKUS> "Like I said before, I t want to involve you..." <SWAN> "H
ey I'll tell you something, if I remembered, and if I had a copy of it, I wouldn't hesitate et involved. I could careles
s about...where a person hangs out. I'm not squeamish in any ways, about what you're talking about, all kinds of supernatura
l stuff. If I had some knowledge of it, and I saw it...hell yeah man, I would get riinto it."<MICKUS> "Actually, I was t
hinking more of the...you know theoretically what some intelligence service could do a person who... I thought that maybe
you might not want to talk for that reason." <SWAN> "No no. After I talked with you the ottime, I kinda gone back and
re-lived conversations and stuff. As far as the contents of the document you are talking abo. I know that we discussed a
bunch of stuff as far as different things, but I don't know anything about the docts."<MICKUS> "Do you remember discus
sing events connected with... Now, some of those Project names do they ring a bell al? Or discussion of UFOs? Do you rem
ember that as being central to what you were discussing, as opposed to just military <SWAN> "Well, if I got into the pa
rticulars of the different operations or something, I would probably remember what waid. As far as the code names and al
l of that kind of stuff, they really don't mean anything to me. As far as some of things that were going on, I recall
discussions on that. Its trying to piece together stuff that far back, and at that poin time it was fascinating to
what was going on, but I didn't have any extreme interest in it."<MICKUS> "Would you say, ting back to that time...that Yes, th
e impression left is that this stuff that you saw dealt with UFOs. Was that..." <SW"Oh yeah."<MICKUS> "That's clear the
n, right?" <SWAN> "Oh yeah."<MICKUS> "You're just talking specifics now. And although you may ot remember what was on the pages, w
hatever, can you think back in your mind, and actually see Bill passing something ofor you to look at...or referring to
something in front of him, specific documents." <SWAN> "Yeah, I remember that. I remembert, but its like I said, as f
ar as the contents and so on, that was just discussed. As far as a copy, I don't recall gettone.".......========================
================================================ [ - End of File - ]
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