Reincarnation and a Cycling Universe

by Distromnia

I asked this question in IRC (server: irc.lcirc.net channel: #albinoblacksheep) My nick was Satan. A user named Chimpy answered. This is our conversation, occuring on November 19, 2004.

Q: If eternity doesn't exist; if life is finite, then is death finite, also? Or, if eternity DOES exist, and death is infinite, why isn't life?

A: Death is a transient state, as you revert to the most basic elements of your body, so you stop being dead, stop existing, and thus both life and death are finite.

<Satan> Your answer assumes that there is no eternity. You only answered half of the question.

<Satan> ;)

<Chimpy> There is no eternity, as, like a body by the end the universe will return to its component parts, as stars supernova, until there is nothing but blackholes left then these blackholes begin to consume one another until a tiny piece of matter is left that suddenly explodes in a Big Bang and becomes the next universe

<Chimpy> Can you tell I have too much time on my hands?

<Satan> I can tell that you're pretty deep.

<Satan> But aren't the innerworkings of the brain, your thoughts, nothing but waves?

<Chimpy> Well no, not waves electrical charges and chemical imbalances

<Satan> Well, they're 'electromagnetic energies'.

<Chimpy> Yeah, I guess your orriginal comment was right

<Chimpy> Sorry for the attempted correction

<Satan> Lol

<Satan> Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

<Chimpy> Nor can matter, but they can be changed into different states

<Satan> If the brain's thoughts, ideas, and whatnot are simply electromagnetic energy, then is it possible that that energy can radiate from the brain, be changed into a different form, but still carry a human's conciousness?

<Satan> Thereby making eternity possible?

<Satan> If you think about it, the only thing immortal about the human body IS the electromagnetic energy within the brain.

<Satan> Call it a spirit, soul, whatever--the point is, energy is immortal.

<Chimpy> It really depends on your definition of eternity, when the energy from your brain changes state does what it carries remain the same? For example if you turn a sound message into a light message will the message remain the same?

<Satan> Sound messages through the air are converted to electrical messages in telephones every day, and the message is still the same.

<Chimpy> But the message must be decoded, so once the electromagnetic waves of the mind are transformed is there a way to decode them back into thought, energy and action?

<Satan> Water goes from sea water, to clouds, to air, to bodily fluids, to urine, all through the course of time. It takes no electronic decoding--it happens naturally.

<Satan> Couldn't electromagnetic energy be changed naturally in the same way?

<Chimpy> But water is matter, not energy

<Satan> Or, does it even NEED to be changed?

<Satan> You're right. I only used it as an example of natural change.

<Satan> Probably not the best one.

<Chimpy> Yeah, by the way random stab in the dark, are you buddhist?

<Satan> Not necessarily 'buddhist'.

<Chimpy> Read any buddhist scripture/literature

<Satan> I mean, I agree with the whole spiritual enlightment thing.

<Satan> Kama Sutra?

<Chimpy> Heh

<Satan> :P

<Chimpy> Hell I can recite that, my girlfriend decided it was easier than turning the pages with sticky fingers

<Satan> Lol

<Satan> You mentioned that the universe would eventually consume itself and a new Big Bang would occur.

<Chimpy> Yeah, or at least IMHO

<Satan> What if our exact molecular structure, well, ALL molecular structure in the universe, is returned to it's original positions after the universe 'recycles' itself?

<Chimpy> Then we, as a race are reborn and in my random thoughts, which don't count for much, this can and will happen at some point

<Satan> If the Big Bang's tiny particle of matter were to occur, well, anywhere, and it is packed in the exact same way each time, then not only as a RACE could we be reborn, but as individual humans?

<Chimpy> Although it's impossible to give it a when as it would require an entirely new universe and as without a universe there is no time any new universe is subject to it's own time

<Chimpy> Yes we could because of the nature of mind

<Chimpy> All your points about electromagnetic waves in the mind agree with this fact, in that at some point the exact same waves must occur

<Satan> Even though the MATTER of the universe must eventually be 'recycled', there is no way to destroy the electromagnetic waves.

<Satan> So eventually the void of the universe could be filled up with them.

<Chimpy> There is no void of the universe as there is nothing external to the universe and so although it expands it does not expand in relation to an outside distance but to its own distances within

<Satan> We're already listening to unknown sounds from the universe all of the time... Stars and such, we know what those sound like, but there's all kinds of space noise from unknown sources. Could it be the 'souls' of humans/aliens long gone?

<Chimpy> In a word

<Chimpy> Yes

<Satan> Mhm

<Chimpy> And I'd never deny that

<Satan> And could these 'souls' still somehow possess conciousness?

<Satan> Maybe the electromagnetic waves of one dead species is transfered to the brain of another... That could be considered reincarnation.

<Chimpy> No, because conscienciousness in the human mind requires on its hybrid nature of both chemical and electrical systems. Long term memory is chemical and not electrical, so let me pose you a question: When the body dies and the chemicals of the mind drain away, and become the soil are they lost as coherent memories? And should these chemicals be taken up by another organism does that organism...

<Chimpy> ...gain the memories it has just consumed?

<Satan> Ah. That could also be considered reincarnation.

<Satan> ;)

<Chimpy> Yep

<Chimpy> That was my grandmothers belief, that as her body was given to the soil she would be the foodstuffs of new life and would live on like that

<Satan> That makes sense.

<Satan> She would actually have conciousness and memory within other creatures.

<Chimpy> Yeah

<Satan> It's an athiestic idea, with the supernatural having no hand in it, but at the same time, eternity is possible that way.

<Satan> I say eternity... It'd be in cycles.

<Chimpy> Then if you look at the buddhist belief in not a soul but an anata (Japanese for "you") which is not memories but a random bundle of emotions, which are in essence you travels to your next body but the memories are fresh and new then both chemical and electromagnetic reincarnation are covered

<Satan> Interesting...

<Chimpy> The whole cyclic idea is what I was trying to portray in the belief that the universe will at some point return to its component parts and then Big Bang over again

<Satan> Mhm.

<Chimpy> And as, generally things on a universal level mimic those on a lesser level it would be expected the same thing could be said of souls or anatas or whatever you name it

<Chimpy> 'course these are just the ramblings of a semi-coherent teenager :P

<Satan> Hehe

<Satan> How old are you?

<Chimpy> 15

<Satan> Ah

<Satan> Same here, actually.

<Chimpy> Heh

<Satan> But anyway.

<Chimpy> Seems all the deep americans I meet are teenagers

<Satan> Well, let's just say we're an awesome generation.

<Chimpy> Heh, yeah why not

<Satan> ;)

<Satan> Lol

<Satan> And now to find some food.

<Chimpy> I was gonna say I'm surprised to meet a texan this deep, but it's rude

<Chimpy> See ya

<Satan> Lol.

<Satan> Later.

<Chimpy> Bye

His final opinion that eternity is possible through reincarnation and a cycling universe really didn't match his initial answer to my question that 'life and death are both finite.' But his belief is something that not only provides me for salvation and peace of mind knowing that eternity is possible, but also proves it in a SCIENTIFIC way. Hands down, this has GOT to be the most in-depth, yet amazingly SIMPLE ideas I've ever come across. Spectacular.