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Internet Marketing Digest 0422
Digest #0422
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is moderated by Glenn Fleishman <[email protected]>
For info about the list, send INFO INTERNET-MARKETING to [email protected]
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To switch back to digest mode, send: SET INET-MARKETING MAIL DIGEST
Complete list archives: <http://www.popco.com/hyper/internet-marketing/>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In this digest:
Re: Bulk e-mail discussion ([email protected] (Lee Levitt))
Re: Unsolicited email ([email protected])
Re: Bulk e-mail discussion ([email protected] (Cliff Kurtzman))
That %#!* Online Business Today ([email protected] (Kirsten Alexander))
Re: bulk e-mail (Glenn Fleishman <[email protected]>)
Sponsorship rate change starting August 24 (Glenn Fleishman <[email protected]>)
Re: Bulk e-mail discussion ([email protected] (Jerry Neece))
Unsolicited email ([email protected] (Jon Bonne))
Unsolicited email - a Canadian's opinion. ([email protected] (Lance))
abstracts from latest Web Digest For Marketers ([email protected] (Larry Chase))
Strategic count of Internet hosts
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Date: 21 Aug 1995 08:53:36 -0700
From: [email protected] (Lee Levitt)
Subject: Re: Bulk e-mail discussion
>Sanford Wallace of Promo Enterprises wrote:
>
>>Another thread developed from a letter by [email protected]. He ad
>>only received 1 response from a 6000 direct e-mailer (I think). What he
>>didn't realize is that his e-mail address was misspelled T-Haynes, not
>>T_Haynes. That is the reason he received such a poor response.
>
>Sorry Mr. Wallace. The E-mail address I gave in my ad was that of my
>publisher, [email protected]. It appeared twice in the ad and the one reply
>we got was to that aol address. My own address did not appear in the final
>ad copy that I sent you - spelled correctly or incorrectly or in any form.
>/Ted Haynes
>Ted Haynes, Author of "The Electronic Commerce Dictionary"
>[email protected] http://www.haynes.com
>
Isn't that something a service provider would check anyway? Seems to me that
if indeed the item had been mispelled, and it sure sounds like it's a
non-issue, that the person doing the mailing should have checked this very
important issue.
When we do paper mailings, we scrutinize every aspect of the mailing,
particularly the call to action, the address, phone number, etc...Sure don't
want a simple mistake destroying a campaign...
Just my .02
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Levitt For information on Purveyor
Manager, Market Development World Wide Web server software
Process Software Corporation for Microsoft Windows NT (TM)
[email protected] or Windows 95 (TM), please
508.628.4381 stop by http://www.process.com
800.722.7770 x 381
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 21 Aug 1995 09:04:58 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Unsolicited email
>>* Unsolicited email and other spams should be made illegal in as many
countries as possible, just as unsolicited faxes are illegal in the U.S.<<
Although I agree that Unsolicited Mail needs to stop, I don't believe
legislation should be enacted. It has been the lack of control over the
internet that has allowed it to thrive.
All you need to do is forward a copy of the letter to the postmaster@ the
mailers domain with a brief complaint. The postmaster will generally take
care of the problem.
- -Sheila Danzig +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Author "Turn Your Computer Into A Money Machine." For a FREE Sample
Newsletter about online marketing send any message to
<[email protected]>.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 21 Aug 1995 09:05:50 -0700
From: [email protected] (Cliff Kurtzman)
Subject: Re: Bulk e-mail discussion
[email protected] (Paul Eidsvik) wrote:
>Email is almost certain to be a part of the internet commerce of the future.
> It is in fact already a part of that commerce. It possibly counts for more
>actual business than all the web sites put together. We have been using it
>for some time, rather successfully.
>
>I agree that people who don't wish to be part of the commercial side of the
>internet should basically be left alone to do whatever, but those of us who
>do chose to be a part of the business world shouldn't think that it can or
>should be a one way street. If I put my name out there for the world to see
>as a provider of products or services, I should expect that others will
>approach me about products and services of their own that I might find useful.
First off, I should state that I embrace the evolution of the net and its
commercial growth over the past couple of years. It has been responsible
for the growth and success of my company, changing it from a small local
business with a local market into an exponentially growing company with an
international client base. What I don't embrace is the few rude people
that either don't care about or bother to learn the basic social structure
of the territory.
If someone showed up for a job interview with my company in jeans and a
tee-shirt, they wouldn't get very far. It shows a basic disrespect for the
business environment that I and my clients work in. I would immediately
suspect the business judgment of anyone that acted in such a manner. In
the same vein, someone that sends me an unsolicited email ad tells me loud
and clear that they don't have a clue, and I would immediately suspect that
their cluelessness extends to all other aspects of their business.
So far most folks coming onto the net do so with courtesy and
"net.acceptable" behavior (see
http://arganet.tenagra.com/net-acceptable.html), but there are always a few
in search of a quick buck that don't bother to learn proper manners for the
culture they are visiting, or who just don't care.
I certainly agree with the above statement that email is certain to be a
part of the internet commerce of the future. I currently run an email
mailing list with 4,000 subscribers, and each month I send them a
newsletter that includes advertisements from our list sponsors. I know for
a fact that many on the list are on the list just to receive the great
deals offered in the ads, rather than to read the rest of my newsletter. I
obviously don't have a problem with this type of advertising, because each
person on the list took a deliberate action to sign up for the list, and
was made aware that it had commercial content on the sign-up form. That is
very different from sending out emails that are unsolicited.
When I put up a web page that advertises my company, what it says is that I
am happy to receive email inquiries regarding the products or services
advertised. It certainly is not an invitation for others to send me
advertisements (at least via email), unless I have indicated on my web page
that it is my desire to receive them.
It is important to keep in mind that now, entirely without significant cost
to themselves, hundreds of thousands of businesses could simultaneously
bury each of us in email ads. That is why people are so passionate about
not receiving unsolicited email ads. For a salesman to call me, it costs
them something -- their time if nothing else. If I get something in the
mail, then the sender has paid postage, along with printing and paper
costs. These costs act as controls, prohibiting the whole world from
swamping me at once. Email is very different.
As it is, I get close to 600 emails a week, many of which are important and
relate to my business. I have to read each and every one to see if it is
important. Billing for my time is how I earn my living, and when I have to
spend time to read through junk, it costs money right out of my company's
pocket. A dozen or so ads may not seem so bad, but if I start getting
thousands (which is very possible) then my business will come to a
standstill.
This is why people are so vehement about not receiving unsolicited email
advertisements, and why so many people sending out such emails have had
their businesses shut down by retaliatory measures taken those offended.
>
>Let's be blunt about something else. Much of what is written in usenet
>newsgroups (much of what is on the internet in general) is pure drivel by
>any standard I know of. This "netiquette" that people claim to be so fond
>of is not exactly put in place by "rocket scientists" or people interested
>in pure academic discussion. Those who howl the most about it generally
>have their own axe to grind.
Beware hasty generalizations because this one is wrong, wrong, wrong.
- --Cliff
Clifford R. Kurtzman, Ph.D. (Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering
from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and a veteran of a number
of space flight programs)
President and Chief Executive Officer
The Tenagra Corporation
http://arganet.tenagra.com/
713/335-1072
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 21 Aug 1995 09:44:47 -0700
From: [email protected] (Kirsten Alexander)
Subject: That %#!* Online Business Today
I share both Mary and Matt's experience of being unexpectedly subscribed to
Online Business Today, the most useless publication I've seen on the net.
They also seem incabable of unsubscribing me--there is another one in my
mailbox today, this time with no unsubscribe directions. Since the three of
us probably don't have a lot more in common than this list, I'm wondering if
that's how they're finding subscribers. Anyone else get sucked in as well?
Promo: Unsubscribing to lists I originally wanted to be on is pain
enough--I should *never* have to deal with it with something I never asked
for. If you insist on sending unsolicited mail, why not restrict your
unsolicited messages to only one? Be very humble and honest and promise not
to send anymore messages unless your reader subscribes. That way you hit
your target audience while lowering (but not eliminating) your chances of
ending up on the hit list of the entire company or featured in a future
article of mine with the working title WEB LOSERS (emailed suggestions of
your favorite online netiquette breakers are welcome).
Kirsten Alexander ([email protected])
Editor, Songline Studios
An affiliate of O'Reilly & Associates
Satellite office: (617) 354-5800 * 90 Sherman St. * Cambridge, MA 02140
Take a peek at the latest Web Review at http://gnn.com/wr/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 21 Aug 1995 09:45:49 -0700
From: Glenn Fleishman <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bulk e-mail
Hi all!! I've been following the thread on buld e-mail an have several
observations. But first:
Matt Marnell <[email protected]> wrote:
>As to promo. I wonder if the enduser has more disdain for
>the company (promo) or the businesses that use it. For each message I get
>here
>that is a blatant advert, whether it be something I might like or not, I put
>a note on an internal web page. Nobody within our company is ever to
>do business with that company and if asked on the phone is to tell our
>client not to use that product or service either.
This response reminds me of the classic breaksown of any direct mail
campaign: 40% read it, 40% glance at it, 10% throw it away, and 10% get
a visceral reaction. It seems as though the people on this list fall
into the last category. But isn't it the job of those of us in the
marketing profession to checkout every possible avenue that could
potentially benefit our clients. The reactions I've read here pertain
to personal preferences, not how the receipients of the bulk e-mail
will respond. I'd be interested to see if the traditional breakdown of
readership of a newletter is the same on internet broadcast ads.
I think we can all agree that the commercialization of the internet is
just beginning, and my sole purpose for participation in this group is
to learn the different facets of marketing in the internet. What works,
what doesn't. Ins't that the purpose (or one of them) of this
discussion group.
Thru all of the reactions that I've read, not one of you mentioned the
number of times he (promo) sends e-mail out. I recall that there was a
MOnday, Wednesday, Friday, plus something else happening on Tuesday's
and Thursday's. That practive will dilute the effectiveness of ANY
direct campaign, especially e-mail(I suspect), because we don't have
all day to spend on our computers (at least I don't). I think that he
is turning off potential ccustomers for his clients by, in my opinion,
abusing the privelidge (sp) of sending them e-mail.
I happen to send broadcast faxes (blush), but I do it only once or
twice a month. Now we all know that this costs recipients money, but I
get very few negative responses, basically because I am offering my
potetial clients something of value, and I'm not abusing the privelidge
(sp). When someone complains, I immediately take them off of my fax
list. My experience with faxes mirrors that of traditional responses
to direct mail campaigns, and I feel potentially that of bulk e-mail
also.
In responding to this thread, someone wrote that they were able to
leave "crumb trails" that led to their web page. He/she (sorry, I
didn't jot down your name) went on to describe the amount of hits
he/she received because of these "crumb trails", and the numbers seemed
impressive. I personally would like to know specifically what he/she
did to get that response, so that I might learn who that practice could
benefit my clients.
A lurker delurks! I'm going back to lurking now!
Dave Rusnak
Business Development Solutions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 21 Aug 1995 09:56:31 -0700
From: Glenn Fleishman <[email protected]>
Subject: Sponsorship rate change starting August 24
List folks,
Because of the upcoming Downtown AOL sponsorship arrangement for the
Internet Marketing list (starting August 24th), I have restructured the
sponsorship rates.
The Downtown AOL sponsor, under our arrangement, will be the principal
sponsor for the list at any given time.
This opens rooms for two secondary sponsors, who will get somewhat less
placement and position, but will still reach the same crowd.
Email me if you'd like the new rate structure (which is 50% of the old
one), or check out
<http://www.popco.com/hyper/internet-marketing/sponsor.html>
Glenn Fleishman
Moderator
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 21 Aug 1995 10:13:36 -0700
From: [email protected] (Jerry Neece)
Subject: Re: Bulk e-mail discussion
>Fortunately we have the right to put a sticker on our (real) mailbox to keep at
>least the unadressed mail (do you have that in America?) out.
>
>I think it's time for some smart guy to develop something like this sticker for
>e-mail-boxes as well.
>
>Best regards, Thomas Bollinger
This at least addresses a point I would like to raise about my Internet
shopping practices. There are indeed things I like to touch and feel, like
the Dockers I bought yesterday. (One, I'm not sure I can trust Levi Strauss
to put the right waist size on it and I can't trust myself to make sure I'm
still the waist size I think I am :-) )
What I like to buy on the net are things I can't buy locally in Silicon
Valley. Smoked fish from Scandanavia, for example. I can order it and
have it delivered in two days. And we don't have those unaddressed mail
stickers where I live, but I can ASSURE you, if someone put them for sale
on a website in UK, I'd BUY one and at least try to see if it worked with
the U.S. Post Office!
Jerry Neece
Internet Marketing Manager Adjunct Professor of Marketing
Sun Microsystems Santa Clara University
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 21 Aug 1995 13:03:03 -0700
From: [email protected] (Jon Bonne)
Subject: Unsolicited email
A random couple o' cents on this:
I'm trying to remember exactly what the FCC's restrictions are on
telemarketing calls (limited to certain hours of the day, but I can't
remember exactly which), but I've been thinking for a while that there
needs to be some sort of regulation along these lines.
Part of me cringes to say it because more than anything, I fear the
potential legal limitations that far too many people are ready and waiting
to drop on the Net, but still I think that the current trend towards
unsolicited email just keeps growing and growing like a mutant beast, and
something needs to be done about it.
I personally have fired off many nasty messages to unsolicited emailers who
I felt had just dropped my address into their database without considering
the utility of their message to my needs.
I have also written postmasters and on occasion, worked up some cute Unix
scripts to send a couple of thousand messages to the offending party
(childish, yes, but effective in making a point). I sometimes think
everyone should have them just in case...
As the Webmaster of an advertising/marketing-related site, I get a lot of
this coming through our general email address, available on our splash
page. It's usually pretty clear when someone's come by, picked up our
email, added it to their list, and moved on.
I would love to see the practive of unsolicited commercial email die a
slow, painful, and utterly grotesque death. It is a technological remnant
of some selling practices that I think demonstrated the worst about our
society in the past few decades and that seem to be influenced now (for
the better) by the advent of new technologies.
In the course of my responses to these cunning emailers, I have often found
converts to my point of view. After an especially harsh treatment to a
freelance artist who mailed unsolicited Quicktime movies (totalling a
couple of hundred KB in my mailbox) of his work, we began a dialogue and I
slowly managed to convince him of why what he was doing was harmful.
I hope more people will be convinced in ways like this. Until then, I hope
that people who share my viewpoint will take whatever measures need to be
taken in order to fight the good fight. Maybe AOL people and anyone else
who has an email quota can send portions of their online bills to the email
offenders, maybe AOL and other services will take a greater role in
controlling and enforcing these things - so that the government doesn't
have to.
Jon Bonne
Webmaster Guy
Advertising Media Internet Center / Telmar Information Services
______________________________________________________________
Jon Bonne
[email protected]
[email protected]
http://www.telmar.com
http://www.phantom.com/~jbonne
http://www.phantom.com/~jbonne/tarantinoworld
"As in real life, I have never really been interested in people who are
wavering, who don't know what they like, who don't know what they
value. "
-Hal Hartley
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 21 Aug 1995 13:03:36 -0700
From: [email protected] (Lance)
Subject: Unsolicited email - a Canadian's opinion.
Hello all,
It is apparent how most people on this list feel about unsolicited
email -- Glenn included. I have been anxiously awaiting rebuttals in favour
of this practice. It seems as though Promo Enterprises is in need of a
defender -- it just won't be me!
Thought I might share a real-world example of a Canadian corporation
who recently attempted to provide a similiar "service" to its users and
failed miserably. Rogers Communications, the Canadian cable mogul, decided
to provide a package of new channels to cable subscribers for free, with the
intention of charging for this package at a later date. There were 6
channels -- it was all or nothing -- and the only way to avoid being billed
for them 3 months later was to call Rogers' affiliates and request that the
channels be removed. This is known as "negative billing" -- the practice of
giving consumers a product or service without their consent, and providing
an "out" only by action on the part of the consumer -- unsubscribing by
phone. The public was outraged. How, could a corporation like Roger's force
feed it's cable subscribers new channels and demand payment, just because
the subscriber happens to watch T.V. via Roger's satellites? This is
parallel to a poster to a newsgroup "asking" to be placed on a bulk email
list just because they wish to exercise their opinions/offer relevant
information.
The Canadian government stepped-in and OUTLAWED "negative billing".
Roger's had to back-peddle in a hurry because people, many people, were
cancelling their entire cable subscriptions along with the new channel
package. We can now happily request any one of the 6 channels without paying
for all of them. One disgruntled fellow even initiated a class action
lawsuit against Roger's for their unprecedented and unsolicited
revenue-generator (I'm not sure how that's going).
Now, this new package would only add $2.50 Cdn to our monthly bill.
Yet the public forced this billion-dollar conglomerate to curl-up and say
"Uncle". It was a well-deserved victory for individuals who refuse to accept
and pay for "services" or products they have not "asked" for. Promo
Enterprises is a little misguided, as was Roger's Communications, on this
issue. Hopefully they will heed the intelligent and polite advice of people
on this list.
Lance Jones
- -- member of the Canadian coalition of cable subscribers against a 500
channel universe (C.C.C.S.A.F.H.C.U.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 21 Aug 1995 13:05:56 -0700
From: [email protected] (Larry Chase)
Subject: abstracts from latest Web Digest For Marketers
Hi All,
Below are a few samples from the latest version of WDFM which can be found
in its entirety at the url at the bottom of this message. Enjoy.
Philips Electronics
In addition to the company information, Philips has provided interesting
graphics, a very useful search engine and a multimedia tribute to its
employees through the "International Mosaic". The search engine allows a
detailed text search of full pages or titles and can display from 10 to 100
results in high, medium or low detail. The "International Mosaic of cultures,
languages, currencies, voltages and time zones!" is a collection of pages of
images created by Philips employees from almost 30 countries. The artwork
represents each employee's vision of what Philips is to them. It's refreshing
to see a major international company recognizing the individuality of its
employees. Philips has truly captured the community spirit of the Internet on
its site.
http://www.philips.com/
- --------------------------------
3M Innovation Network
3M provides access to product information, a company profile, and its
international operations. 3M has also incorporated a page locator, a
hyperlinked hierarchical organizational chart of the company's web pages
which enable the user to go directly to any page on the server. This easy-to-
use and time-saving feature is an effective way for a Fortune 500 company
such as 3M to map out a comprehensive site and simplify the navigation
process for the user. Be patient, the site is still under construction and
many of the links are not yet operational. From the page locator or the home
page visit the recently opened Office Market Center. A search mechanism lets
you find selected 3M items or you can stop by the "candy jar" and order a
free sample of a 3M product.
http://www.mmm.com
- --------------------------------
Chevron
Chevron greets us with a lateral view of the earth's crust. Dig through the
operations, financials and news earth tables and continue as deep as you can
into the exploration zone. Here is where the interesting stuff is.. explore
the photos of historical Chevron tankers, a downloadable wildlife screensaver
and a petroleum prospecting story in 3d. This is a good start for Chevron. We
hope it's still under construction.
http://www.chevron.com/
- --------------------------------
Consumer Products
- --------------------------------
Fujifilm
Fujifilm has mounted it's soapbox and given us its retort to Kodak's
complaint against them regarding the Japanese Consumer Photographic Market.
Is this the purpose of a website? Wouldn't you like to view some sample
photographs developed from Fujifilm? Try to find them. After several clicks
we finally did. Click on product information. Click on DS-505/515.
(Imaginative product description) Click on "image gallery". If you are
still here, click on one of four thumbnail photos. Doesn't the web
seem like a perfect place to demonstrate the quality of your film? We think
so, how about it Fuji?
http://www.fujifilm.co.jp/
- --------------------------------
Pepsi-The Fridge
Go to the fridge, no not Zima's but Pepsi's and take the Pepsi challenge--Is
it Coke or Pepsi? Record your reactions on a photograph and see your photo
and bio in the online Pepsi Gallery. (Fujifilm might want to sponsor this
site) Take the Fridge Safari (details soon), see the Club Pepsi Max
competition and win a trip to Florida or download free pin-ups (of guys too!)
or computer graphics. Every week there will be announcements of new contests,
great prizes and more Coke-bashing. Things are happening here. Whether you
are the X-Generation or the Yuppie Generation or like, you know, the Clueless
Generation-- don't miss the Pepsi generation.
http://www.pepsi.co.uk/
- --------------------------------
Frito Lay
Munch, munch..where's the crunch? The miniature bags of Fritos, Chee-tos and
Doritos acting as icons are entertaining. But when we opened them we were
disappointed by the bland fat-free taste. This site is still evolving so
hopefully it will improve. We liked the WWW resource page which provides
links to web browsers and helper applications. Oh, you will see Chester the
cheetah (Chee-to?) running around the screen and if you really like him you
can download his wallpaper to your computer too. This site could titillate
your taste buds if it tempted us with some mouth-watering images of its
recipes rather than just text. What about throwing a party with chips and
beer. We need the lively sounds of a party and hip music to dance to. Maybe
Frito Lay should visit the Molson Ice Party for some tips. (See Web Digest
July 24, 1995 )
http://www.fritolay.com/
- --------------------------------
Vivarin contest
Get alert! Stay awake! Get some Vivarin! This site will wake you up. This is
Vivarin's official announcement site of it's quest to "..find the best home
page on the Internet that's designed, developed or defragged by a college
student" The grand prize--a $10,000 scholarship! Other prizes--a Panasonic
Palmcorder and stereo cassette players. Who said you can't make money on the
web? Vivarin is aware that contests and games with GOOD rewards are currently
one of the major website attractions to keep surfers coming back.
http://www.vivarin.com/vivarin/
- -------------------------------
Cordially,
Larry Chase/The Online Ad Agency email: [email protected]
World Wide Web http://advert.com
Web Digest For Marketers http://advert.com/wdfm
Voice: (212) 876-1096 Fax (212) 876-1098
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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