INSLAW, Promis, Etc.
The following is a Radio Interview between James Norman,
formerly Senior Editor of Forbes Magazine and now with Media
Bypass Magazine and Jim Quinn, DJ of WRRK 96.9 FM in Pittsburgh.
In this interview from December 7th, they discuss issues of
national importance and STUNNING IMPACT. Essentially they give
out the reason for Vincent Foster's Death, and the fact that
the "resignations" of the Congresspersons are NOT for policy
reasons but because they have been caught with millions in
corrupt funds in Swiss Banks. Read this to learn what the
"mainstream media" doesn't ever tell you...
Quinn's Interview with Jim Norman
QUINN: Jim Norman, former Senior Editor at Forbes Magazine, and
currently writing for Media Bypass Magazine after having
uncovered Caspar Weinberger's Swiss bank account (we do get
punished for some of the truths we uncover, do we not?). Jim is
on the phone with us this morning. Good Morning, Jim.
NORMAN: Hi, how are you?
QUINN: Pretty good. I want to give people a chance to get an idea
of what it is we are going to launch into after 8 o'clock, and I
want to give some background into this. Is it fair to say that
since Iran-Contra that the government has sort of been involved
in the drug business?
NORMAN: Yes, it goes way back before then, actually. It goes back
even to the Vietnam War days -- remember the Golden Triangle,
Laos, Cambodia and all that, Pakistan and Afghanistan, but it was
always on a much smaller scale. What apparently happened was that
in the 80s we got into it in a big way, basically nationalizing
the wholesale importation of drugs from Central and South America.
The idea was that we control it somehow that way; instead, it has
just become the tail wagging the dog, I think.
QUINN: It's become the funding source for just about anything
that the government covertly wants to do, and for the moneys that
various elements of the government don't want to ask the Congress
for, nor do they want Congress to know about.
NORMAN: Right. And it's an arms business, too. They are kind of
all tied up together.
QUINN: So it's arms and drugs?
NORMAN: Right.
QUINN: Kenneth Starr is currently our Whitewater prosecutor, and
I have long said on this show that I find Ken Starr interesting
but also troubling in that there are many elements to the
Whitewater scandal. Part of the laments have to do with banking
and have to do with Madison Savings and Loan, check kiting, stuff
that went on with the Arkansas Development Financial Authority,
but basically there are really two elements -- there is Whitewater
and then there is all the stuff with Mena Airport, Iran-Contra,
drugs into the country, various unexplained deaths, one of them
Vince Foster, the possibility of espionage on the part of the
first lady, and all of this lies behind a brick wall that Mr.
Starr has been positioned upon to make sure that they get Clinton
but that the fire doesn't burn past that wall; because on the
other side of that wall are Republicans and Democrats. Am I right?
NORMAN: That's right. He is not looking at Mena; he doesn't have
the authority to from Janet Reno. He does have authority to look
at the Vince Foster death, but I think only inasmuch as it relates
to the Whitewater situation. The whole thing is hemmed in and
beyond that is this whole national security blanket that has been
thrown over big parts of this thing that you couldn't touch if you
wanted to.
QUINN: It's interesting, I find, that Dr. Henry Lee, who was part
of the defense team for the Simpson trial, has ended up working on
the Vince Foster affair. The word that I get is that he is going
to say it was indeed a suicide. You have to remember something
about Dr. Henry Lee -- he was, oddly enough, the guy that was
called in to do some work on the Danny Casolaro death down in
Martinsburg, way back in the early nineties. Was it 1991?
NORMAN: I think it was 1991.
QUINN: This was that reporter that you may have heard about that
was found dead in a motel room, supposedly from a self-inflicted
wound, even though the papers (a year's worth of investigative
reporting) were all missing. He was working on the story that he
called the "octopus" and basically it's the same story that you
are working on, isn't it?
NORMAN: Yes, I know I'm talking to a lot of the same sources.
Danny supposedly slashed his wrists twelve times, sometimes deep
enough to cut the tendon.
QUINN: Yeah, right. And his files were all missing. Sure,
there's a suicide. Right. And they embalmed his body before they
even had a chance to inform his parents that he was dead. So it's
another "Arkanside."
NORMAN: George Williamson, who is an investigative reporter out
of San Francisco, has been working on that. He has come up with
all kinds of stuff -- other witnesses that have disappeared,
people in the hotel who just aren't there anymore -- disappeared
mysteriously.
QUINN: It's interesting. There are a lot of people who are
witnesses to various deaths involved with this Arkansas crowd,
Danny Casolaro for one. Also, the two young boys on the railroad
tracks down in Arkansas who stumbled on the drug operation. A lot
of the witnesses around that have met violent and untimely deaths
as well. So here are a great deal of ugly people involved in
this. We are going to get down to what it all means in terms of
government corruption and scandal of immense proportions that
touch both parties. This is really nonpartisan. The fact that I
don't happen to like "President Pantload" doesn't have a whole
lot to do with this; he was just sort of a guy who happened to be
there with his hand out at the time. It all goes back to the late
70's, right Jim?
NORMAN: Yeah, and even before that. Let's start with the early
80s when Bill Casey came into office in the CIA under Ronald
Reagan. That's when our government decided to embark on this
amazing and extremely unbelievably successful effort to spy on
the world's banks. We did it! We have been spying on world
banking transactions for more than a dozen years. The way we do
it is by basically forcing foreign banks, wittingly or
unwittingly, to buy bugged software and bugged computers that
let our NSA (National Security Agency) which is the intelligence
arm of the government, to basically surveil wire transfers all
over the globe.
QUINN: Let me ask you this. How do you sucker the rest of the
banking community around the globe into buying the software
that you are selling?
NORMAN: First of all you sell to front companies like this
company Systematics in Arkansas, now called Alltel Information
Services. They had another company called Boston Systematics,
an affiliate based in Israel mainly. There is Robert Maxwell, the
UK publisher, who is fronting this stuff. There are a whole bunch
of people fronting this.
QUINN: Wait a minute, Robert Maxwell -- isn't he dead?
NORMAN: Yeah, he is now.
QUINN: Didn't he have an unfortunate accident?
NORMAN: Fell off his yacht in the Atlantic Ocean somewhere.
QUINN: Why, isn't that amazing!
NORMAN: The tinkering of it was mainly putting back doors, just a
few lines of code, that would allow somebody to dial into a
computer without leaving any footprints, any audit trail that
you were in there. Then you could go around and look around in
files or you could collect information from a system without the
user even knowing it
QUINN: Now this software, which was originally called Promis,
was stolen from a company called Inslaw by the Justice
Department. It ended up somewhere, probably at E-Systems
or somewhere, and it was converted into banking software. It
Started out as software designed to track prosecutorial cases
around the country. My question is -- why didn't Ed Meese just
pay the damn bill, and none of this would ever have come to
light! Danny Casolaro was chasing the stolen software when he
stumbled on what it was being used for.
NORMAN: Well, the trouble with it was that they bought it for use
in the Justice Department, but they were going to use it all over
the place. If they were paying royalties on it, Inslaw would know
just how extensive the use was of the software, and they didn't
want people to know how extensively it was going to be used.
QUINN: I see...
NORMAN: Plus, a lot of the profits from the resale of this went
back into private profits. It was customized and resold to the
intelligence community. It became sort of a basic platform
database tracking system for most of our intelligence agencies
and many of those abroad. The idea was "Well, we can all talk to
each other now." In fact what it has allowed us to do is
basically rifle through other people's data files abroad too,
because the stuff was apparently being sold to foreign
intelligence agencies and it was also bugged. We have other ways
of basically surveilling and downloading foreign electronic
databases. The whole computer world is much more porous and
transparent than anybody wants you to believe.
QUINN: There is a bank here that I know that uses this software
right here in this town, and I'm sure that there is probably more
than one. Everybody's got it.
NORMAN: In some form or another. It goes under different names
now. It's been modified many times. I think when Inslaw had it,
it was a half million lines of code. I'm told now it's a couple
of million lines anyway. It's gone through many, many
modifications over the years.
QUINN: This company, Systematics, which is I believe still 8%
owned by Jackson Stevens at Stevens Inc., who, by the way, is one
of the backers of Bob Dole -- how troubling is that?
NORMAN: He is the co-chairman of Dole's finance committee.
QUINN: That's right! Bob's in town -- Hi Bob -- You'd better
explain this. You'd better explain Mena, too, Bob, or it's going
to follow you to the White House. Systematics, I understand, had
an attorney who was kind of off the record doing work for them,
named Vince Foster. Is that true?
NORMAN: Yep, that's true. We've heard that from many, many
sources now. In fact, Jim Leach's committee has established that
pretty well with some of the investigation that they have done.
Foster was a trusted deal guy for Stevens at the law firm.
Although Foster never shows up officially as an attorney of record
for Systematics, he was definitely in the loop, basically
smoothing out things between Systematics and the NSA, which was
the main government agency that was contracting for a lot of this
stuff.
QUINN: So this is how Foster got involved in intelligence, right.
NORMAN: Yes, because there is heavy duty code and computer
technology stuff involved here. Apparently, some time in the
early 80s he developed this relationship with the State of
Israel. In fact, some of the same handlers I am told were
involved in the Jonathan Pollard case. They basically nurtured
him and groomed him for many years and then bingo, they hit the
jackpot -- he ended up in the White House. Apparently he
convinced Hillary to help him out on some stuff.
QUINN: So... what is Foster involved in? It's the mid 80s...
NORMAN: Mid 80s. Foster is at the Rose Law Firm. Think of him as
a high-level marketing guy between Systematics and the NSA.
NSA -- they have all these spooky contracts that they are trying
to find contractors for. Foster would have been sort of a
go-between there. Plus Hillary was actually an attorney of record
for Systematics back in 1978 when Stevens tried to take over the
Financial General Bank shares in Washington. Those bank holding
companies later became First American - Clark Clifford, Robert
Altman, all that crowd.
QUINN: Yeah, the BCCI thing.
NORMAN: Stevens was fronting for the BCCI crowd and trying to
take over this Washington Bank Holding Co. The SEC blocked him at
the time, partly because one of the things he was insisting on
was that this company Systematics, which at that time was a tiny
little thing in Arkansas, he was insisting that they be brought
in to do all of the data processing for this multistate bank
holding company in Washington. Hillary represented Systematics
in that. Now the thing about Systematics at the time -- it was
before they even got involved with the bank spying stuff. Abroad
for many years, they had been what amounted to a laundromat for
covert funds for the CIA and the intelligence community, quite
legally, probably. It was done for the national interest.
Somebody had to move this money around and Systematics was in a
perfect place to do it because they owned the computers and a
whole bunch of small banks. They could move this money around
electronically without the bankers even knowing about it
necessarily, and it wouldn't go through the normal clearing
houses. The regulators wouldn't see it. It would just crop up
wherever the CIA needed it in whatever bogus front company
account, and it was all just bits and bytes; it was a cyberbank
-- it still is.
QUINN: I'm here with Jim Norman, former Senior Editor at Forbes
Magazine. You know, it's interesting, here is a guy who was with
Forbes Magazine, a respected senior editor who figured probably
this would be his life's work. All of a sudden, he finds himself
a defrocked commando journalist working for Media Bypass Magazine
out of what? Evanston, Illinois, or somewhere in Indiana?
NORMAN: Indiana.
QUINN: Yeah, that's right. Now, I've got a question. Before we get
into Vince Foster in the mid 80s and Hillary Clinton's role in
this, how did you get onto this whole scandal? Where did you walk
through the door on this?
NORMAN: I came in the back door completely. Look, I had no ax to
grind here against Bill Clinton or the Administration. I hated
covering politics. I thought it was all baloney. I'm just a
business writer, and I never wanted to get enmeshed in this whole
Whitewater/Vince Foster thing, but it started -- for a couple of
years I had been following this oil company bankruptcy up in
Stamford, Connecticut, because I had covered oil. This thing
never made sense to me. There is no reason why this company went
bust and, in fact, when I actually got into it and started redoing
the oil trading transactions, the reason they lost money: they
weren't losing it. They were hiding it. They were parking it off
shore with another company that was financing arms sales to Iraq,
cluster bombs and stuff like that all through the 80s. And, this
Chilean arms dealer, Cardone, who was providing weapons, was also,
it turns out, brokering some of the sales of this stolen software.
Okay, that gets me into the software story.
QUINN: So that gets you onto the Promis software, and you and
Danny Casolaro are now on the same road.
NORMAN: Right, and then in the process of that, I started talking
to a whole bunch of rather spooky, strange intelligence community
characters, and I was sitting at a guy's living room down in
Kentucky one day. He was sitting there in the middle of the night
blowing smoke rings, and he said, "Yo, by the way, Vince Foster,
he was under investigation."
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