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Internet Marketing Digest 0432
Internet Marketing Discussion List
Digest #0432 -- the real one this time! Sorry, folks
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Internet Marketing Discussion List is sponsored by
Okidata <http://www.okidata.com>
and Downtown AOL <http://downtown.web.aol.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To UNSUBSCRIBE send any text to the email address [email protected]
Send posts to [email protected]
This list is moderated by Glenn Fleishman <[email protected]>
For info about the list, send INFO INTERNET-MARKETING to [email protected]
Complete list archives: <http://www.popco.com/hyper/internet-marketing/>
For sponsorship info, add "sponsor.html" to that address
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our Sponsors:
Okidata <http://www.okidata.com>
Okidata is a 23 year old company that's built its success on meeting
the computer printing needs of small to medium sized organizations
throughout North and South America
Downtown AOL <http://downtown.web.aol.com>
The streets of Downtown AOL are populated with an eclectic group of
merchants, offering products and services that span the spectrum from
novelty mousepads to regional gourmet food items.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In this digest:
Angels on the Internet ("Mike Walsh" <[email protected]>)
Internet-on-a-Disk #12 now available (Richard Seltzer
<[email protected]>)
Last Call: VENTURE CAPITAL BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY ([email protected]
(Roger North))
Need Cyberspace Lawyer for NY Conference! ([email protected])
What Would You Buy from Email? ([email protected] (Suzanne Lainson))
IMD #0430, Michael Kruse's comments (Patricia Greaves
<[email protected]>)
Clueless in Cyberspace (Bob Novick <[email protected]>)
Bulk E-Mail Revisited ([email protected] (Elizabeth Lane Lawley))
Re: Some Thoughts ([email protected] (Albert Lunde))
Volume of list (Glenn Fleishman <[email protected]>)
Re: Bulk E-Mail Revisited ("Thomas K. Higley" <[email protected]>)
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Date: 28 Aug 1995 08:10:03 -0700
From: "Mike Walsh" <[email protected]>
Subject: Angels on the Internet
I'm helping a reporter doing a Nov cover story for a national business rag.
The topic is raising money on (via) the Internet. It this years
equivalent of last year's story - "I met my spouse/SO on the Net".
Seriously, we're looking for companies that found their seed (angel) or
first round venture funding as a result of contacts made on the
internet.
Actually we'll consider anything as long as its interesting and we can
do one of those dorky (excuse me... photo-journalistic) pictures.
So if you're anywhere along the food chain...
garage shop to seed/angel
seed to first
first to follow-on
seed to public (aka short-circuit)
first to public
This is an ideal opportunity for a company looking for funding to get
their mug on the cover of a national rag.
Short fuse on this. Call or email.
Mike Walsh
703-578-4800
http://www.webcom.com/~walsh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1995 08:13:48 -0700
From: Richard Seltzer <[email protected]>
Subject: Internet-on-a-Disk #12 now available
The latest issue of Internet-on-a-Disk, the free newsletter of public
domain and freely available electronic texts, is now available.
This issue includes pointers to electronic texts recently made available
on the Internet, descriptions of interesting Web sites, pointers to
educational resources, notes on unusual Internet technology, a review of
the movie "The Net", letters to the editor, and several articles:
- -- Will the Real Tomorrowland Please Step Forward? by Richard Seltzer
- -- Making the Web Accessible for the Blind & Visually Impaired by Mike
Paciello
- -- And the Blind Shall Lead Them: New Ways to Perceive Cyberspace by
Richard Seltzer
The full text can be found at http://www.tiac.net/users/samizdat
This Web site was named one of the top 50 Web sites in the September 1995
issue of Net Guide.
If you wish to receive this issue (40 Kbytes) and/or future and back
issues by email, send your request to [email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1995 08:15:05 -0700
From: [email protected] (Roger North)
Subject: Last Call: VENTURE CAPITAL BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY
Since you are consultants, I thought you would be interested in this
opportunity. Please forgive me if you have seen this message before, but we
are coming to the close of our initial marketing phase and I must have all
replies in by Sept. 4.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
KEY PERSON OPPORTUNITY * VENTURE CAPITAL ASSOCIATE
Our corporation, through our expanding associate partners network, and in
conjunction with varied and substantial investment groups (now over 32,000),
provides venture capital, equity and debt funding and real estate financing
to corporate clients throughout North America.
We are currently expanding our system, and we are seeking professional
individuals as our associates, who will in turn, qualify clients for our
services.
Potential earnings of $165,000 part-time in the first year, with substantial
gains in
future years.
To receive a complete package of information, email with the words VENTURE
CAPITAL BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY in the Subject line. Include your snail(postal)
mail address, telephone number and fax number. You also may fax a request
for information to 817-267-7493.
*************************************************************
Roger North * FALCON FINANCIAL*
Associates of Sommerset Capital Corp.
<http://nweb.netaxis.com/falcon>
"RAISE MONEY FOR ANY BUSINESS PURPOSE"
"Do you see a man who is diligent in business?
He will serve before kings; he will not serve before
ordinary men." Proverbs 22:29
*************************************************************
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1995 09:58:17 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Need Cyberspace Lawyer for NY Conference!
NEEDED: A lawyer who would like to sit on a panel to espouse legal opinions
and/or current thinking on laws that might impact public schools/educators
use of the Internet.
Location: Baruch College in New York City
Date: Oct 18th from 4pm to 6pm
Attendence: 1,000 people including news media
Contact: For more information please email [email protected] which is the
email address for Dina Schlesinger, Chairwoman, United Federation of Teachers
Computer Committee. You can also call her at 212.689.6418.
Thanks.
Andrew Schofer
Scholastic Network
Scholastic Inc.
New York, New York
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1995 10:19:57 -0700
From: [email protected] (Suzanne Lainson)
Subject: What Would You Buy from Email?
Personally, I can't think of much I could be sold through unsolicited
email. I don't know how typical I think I am as a shopper (actually I think
I am very typical), but this is how I shop. in descending order of
likelihood of purchase:
1. Store--Most likely place for me to buy everything except
computer-related items. I can examine the item, have it immediately, not
pay for shipping, and take advantage of last-minute sales.
2. Newspaper ads--I do a lot of shopping from these. I learn who's got
what on sale. In fact, I often take the local paper primarily for the ads.
3. Catalogs--My preference for computer items, some clothes, and
one-of-a-kind items. I am able to see color illustrations and easily do
some comparison shopping. Catalogs convey branding. In other words, once I
deal with a mail order company and feel that the service and quality is
good, I am much more likely to make repeat purchases. Generally I only buy
from catalogs items I can not find cheaper locally.
4. Yellow pages--When I want something and don't already know where I can
get it, this is where I look.
5. Magazine ads and product reviews--These alert me to new items, which I
will then look for in stores and catalogs.
6. Junk mail flyers--I rarely order from these, though I do save them on
the assumption that I may order in the future. Of course, I can't always
find them when I need to refer to them. I'm most likely to save ads for
local services, but then I don't usually follow up on them. Sometimes I get
literature on computer items that interest me, but I don't usually order
those either. (I am most likely to purchase products from companies I have
already purchased from before. For example, by initially purchasing a
Global Village modem, I was on their mailing list and when the new 28.8
modem came out, they sent me a special offer and I ordered it directly from
them. Similarly, I ordered an upgrade from ClarisWorks because it was a
good price.
7. TV and radio ads--I never see or hear ads for anything I'm interested in.
8. Email ads--Well, I haven't received any that address my specific needs.
And even if I did, I'm not sure I'd be impressed by the copy, and if I
wasn't impressed by the copy, I'd probably assume the product was junk.
Suzanne
Suzanne Lainson SportsTrust Integrated Marketing
[email protected] P.O. Box 2071 Sports and Event Marketing
303 473-9884 Boulder, CO 80306 Online Marketing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1995 10:23:32 -0700
From: Patricia Greaves <[email protected]>
Subject: IMD #0430, Michael Kruse's comments
Hello everyone,
I'm very pleased to hear from Michael Kruse that Europeans are also
excited about marketing via the Internet. I've checked out a large
number of American companies' Web pages and believe many of them are
aiming at a global audience. A few even offer their pages in a
variety of languages - no small task! My company is definitely
considering how our Web pages can help get out information about our
products and sales channels around the world quickly and easily.
(This will be more apparent in our next site update coming soon.) We
need to remember that just because a Web site looks one way and
contains certain information when you access it today, it will
probably change within a few weeks. That's one of the most wonderful
things about publishing on the Web!
************************************************************
Patricia Greaves Email: [email protected]
Dallas Semiconductor Tel: (214) 778-6085
4401 S. Beltwood Parkway Fax: (214) 450-3715
Dallas, Texas 75244 Web: http://www.dalsemi.com/
************************************************************
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1995 11:12:36 -0700
From: Bob Novick <[email protected]>
Subject: Clueless in Cyberspace
I'm referring to the major advertising agencies and, for the most part,
their clients, the major advertisers. It appears they are all
gravitating towards already popular online sites to place advertising for
their clients, whether this is appropriate or not.
Short-term winners in this scenario are the online services: AOL,
Compuserve, Prodigy and MSN; and the few well-visited web sites like:
O'Reilly's GNN, Wired's HotWired, Paul Allen's Starwave and Time's
Pathfinder.
The reason for this sheep-like behavior, is the "media mentality" of
these large companies. They are used to buying consumers by the pound,
so to speak. And the online services provide them with the stats they
are looking for: audience demographics, cost per thousand, etc. So the
leading web sites follow in this pattern, initiating their own studies of
audience composition. That's the major motivation behind the Commerce
Net, A.C. Nielsen research project - to help provide the audience numbers
that make advertisers and their agencies feel comfortable.
How did the popular sites become so, many in a very short time?
By providing content that appeals to Internet users.
How did Internet users find out about these sites? Primarily by
word-of-mouth, in lists like this, on Usenet and in private e-mail
communications. There are some people who make it their business to surf
the Net and find the newest, best sites. Then they pass on their
knowledge to others, through the above-mentioned channels.
What does this mean for the rest of us? Content, content, content
is the route to success on the Internet. And who will be the innovators
that create the popular web sites that attract the big buck advertisers?
That could be anyone on this list with an idea and the willingness to
create something newer and better than what already exists.
Oh, and don't forget to measure your clickstream and your visitor
demographics.
Bob Novick
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob Novick [email protected]
CyberPulse(sm) Research & Consulting Phone: 310-559-6892
CyberGroups - CyberSurveys - CyberResearch Fax: 310-839-9770
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1995 11:33:23 -0700
From: [email protected] (Elizabeth Lane Lawley)
Subject: Bulk E-Mail Revisited
Thought I'd share a pleasant surprise I received recently regarding an
unsolicited e-mail campaign for a translation program I had no interest in.
I responded to the company in questions informing them that I did not
appreciate unsolicited e-mail, and that I'd like to be removed from their
list. I figured if I was lucky they'd remove me, and that would be the end
of it.
Much to my surprise, today I received an extremely apologetic note from a
real person at this company (located in Italy), expressing their dismay
that I'd found the e-mail inappropriate, and asking if they could send me a
basket of sweets from Sardinia as an apology! Now *that's* a good marketing
department. You can bet I'll read whatever sales material they send me with
those goodies *very* carefully. And they've effectively removed any chance
that I'd want to spam or blacklist them for their ill-conceived initial
effort.
Liz
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Elizabeth Lane Lawley, Director | Internet Training & Consulting Services|
| [email protected] | (800) WIRED-IN * (205) 333-8979 |
| http://www.itcs.com/elawley/ | [email protected] * http://www.itcs.com/ |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1995 11:43:05 -0700
From: [email protected] (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Some Thoughts
> >> Besides the burden of proof it wrong: the present default assumption
> >> is that no one should receive unsolicited e-mail advertisting,
>
> Key phrase: default *assumption*. Unless the service provider they use
> is charging them to receive mail, (a practice that is soon to go the way
> of the buffalo), this is nothing more than an expressed preference. I
> think the biggest problem is the unprofessional way a lot of people in
> the past have been bombed with mail on topics in which they had no
> interest. I have seen that notion expressed by some of the staunchest
> critics of unsolicited email.
As I've pointed out before, netiquette is not just cultural, but
is based on characteristics of the technology. The fundamental issue
is not service providers charging or not charging for mail (though
that surely affects user's perceptions), but rather the absence of
end-to-end cost accounting and recovery.
This is related to the heterogenious nature of the Internet
and the prevaling "no settlements" polity for routing traffic
between different networks on the Internet.
Typically, an organization connecting to the Internet pays
for a certian amount of bandwidth (or with the advent of ATM,
bandwidth at a specified quality of service) but they do
not get charged per packet sent or received (and costs
don't get charged back end-to-end).
The resources used in devivery of an e-mail message typically come
about equally on the sender and recipient (and their network
providers).
If a service provider does not charge per message, or as is the case
for many people who have Internet access thru work or schools, the
organization assumes the cost of e-mail, the net effect is that
the ISP or organization has to buy increased capacity to
pay for the additional traffic generated by junk mail.
The money to pay for this has to come from somewhere, and
there is no way to charge back the sender.
Network bandwidth and disk spools are cheaper than they used
to be, but if unsoliticed junk mail were permitted to grow
unchecked the costs of carrying it would be quite signficant.
Notice that nearly all these costs are incurred before a subject
line filter could have any effect.
Exceptions to this pattern nearly always run in the wrong direction
to support unsolicited e-mail: sites that recieve e-mail using
dial-up polling rather than dedicated lines (still common for bitnet,
uucp, and fidonet mail) and users who download mail with SLIP/PPP
are going to incur costs on a per-message basis.
Easing up on the "cultural norms" about e-mail is like
writing a blank check, because of the way the net is put together.
> How about a central registry to put your name ON email lists.
> Specific, narrowly targetd lists. If this was a feature that was openly
> touted as a feature of the Internet, it could generate enough names to
> feed one heck of a lot of virtual salesmen and their kids. And it would
> be a simple sell.
No problem.
If people indicate that they _want_ a particular kind of mail, and
reasonable means are avaliable to allow easy unsubscrption, then
it's not "unsoclicited e-mail".
As a practical matter, marketers trying to get people to subscribe
to e-mail lists (say via web pages or whatever) should be specific
and realistic about the content and frequency of what people
will receive.
I'm subcribed to over 50 mailing lists, and I get a volume of
mail that would overwhelm many users, so I'm not adverse to e-mail
in general.
I do tend to look for new lists that are low traffic and focused
in content. A list that produces a weekly or monthly message or
a list that only sends out mail when there is real news (and
still not too often) is a lot more likely to get my subscription
than something that produces 10 or 20 messages a day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1995 11:47:56 -0700
From: Glenn Fleishman <[email protected]>
Subject: Volume of list
Folks,
You may have noticed that the volume on this list is getting heavier. This
is a good thing, as the discussion is livelier. We just hit 5,100
subscribers, and are growing again at about 100 subscribers per week (we
were stable at about 4,500 for several weeks).
Because of this, I need to put everyone on notice that posts will be
rejected without notification, even if they contain valid content (that is,
meets list guidelines for appropriateness, tone, form, and topic) if the
list volume is too high to handle it that day. Sometimes, I will delay
posting to a quieter day; other times, it may just drop into the bucket.
I know this can be frustrating, but unfortunately that's one of the side
effects of a moderated forum.
Because of this increased volume, I'm starting to get a variety of email
that's irksome, and I want to dispel a few ideas. The list is not my
personal playpen, nor does it express only points of view I find
acceptable. Some of the recent discussions, in which I openly disagree with
posters points of view, should show this clearly. Some small percentage of
subscribers may feel that I "censor" unpopular opinions; in fact, my only
criteria for posting are stated categorically in the list guidelines, and
include (but aren't limited to):
* coherent
* on-topic
* pithy (where appropriate)
* polite/collegial
* original
That's the renewed statement of purpose. If you ever feel that your post
warrants forwarding and I haven't please feel free to email me privately at
[email protected]. The point of this list is to express many different
opinions, not mine or any particular group's.
Glenn Fleishman
Moderator
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1995 15:40:29 -0700
From: "Thomas K. Higley" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Bulk E-Mail Revisited
>Much to my surprise, today I received an extremely apologetic note from a
>real person at this company (located in Italy), expressing their dismay
>that I'd found the e-mail inappropriate, and asking if they could send me a
>basket of sweets from Sardinia as an apology! Now *that's* a good marketing
>department. You can bet I'll read whatever sales material they send me with
>those goodies *very* carefully. And they've effectively removed any chance
>that I'd want to spam or blacklist them for their ill-conceived initial
>effort.
>
>Liz
This sounds like an excellent example of the "legendary service" championed
by Ken Blanchard and others. Recovery strategies like this provide
marvelous stories that are inspirational for all concerned, including
management, employees and customers.
Interestingly enough, the Internet and the WWW create new opportunities to
provide service of this caliber, but few companies have recognized these
opportunities or exploited them. Noordstrom's "Personal Touch America" may
be one of the few exceptions that proves the rule. They use electronic mail
to provide a "personal shopper"--a "real live person" who looks for
Noordstrom products based on customer-specified criteria.
- --Tom
- --Tom
==================================================================
Thomas K. Higley
General Manager & Chief Executive Officer
Infocast Systems & Technology,
a Division of WebCast Colorado, LLC
19 Old Town Square, Suite 238
Fort Collins, CO 80524
Phone: 303-221-3377 Fax: 303-482-0251 Email: [email protected]
Alternate email: [email protected].
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our Sponsors:
Okidata <http://www.okidata.com>
Okidata is a 23 year old company that's built its success on meeting
the computer printing needs of small to medium sized organizations
throughout North and South America
Downtown AOL <http://downtown.web.aol.com>
The streets of Downtown AOL are populated with an eclectic group of
merchants, offering products and services that span the spectrum from
novelty mousepads to regional gourmet food items.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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