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Internet Marketing Digest 0429


Internet Marketing Discussion List

Digest #0429

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In this digest:
Re: MSN swallowing Internet ? (Not a paranoiac PoV ([email protected]
(Duncan Carmichael))
Netiquette ([email protected] (John Audette))
bad sites (lee m levitt <[email protected]>)
Re: REALITY CHECK ("Thomas K. Higley" <[email protected]>)
Unsolicited Email ([email protected])
Re: pointers to traditional marketing sites ([email protected] (Tor Rognmo))
Re: marketing by e'mail ([email protected] (Don Taylor))
Re: MSN swallowing Internet ? (Not a paranoiac PoV ([email protected] (Don
Taylor))
Going worldwide with Internet Marketing (Glenn Fleishman <[email protected]>)
Re: bad sites ([email protected] (Don Taylor))
Importing to US ([email protected] (franke james))
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Date: 25 Aug 1995 12:12:04 -0700
From: [email protected] (Duncan Carmichael)
Subject: Re: MSN swallowing Internet ? (Not a paranoiac PoV)

I suppose one has to look at the different elements of the Internet to
evaluate any threat from Microsoft or anyone else. It's certainly an
interesting thought.

First there is the Internet telecomm structure. I don't think M$ has any
interest in this. They did buy 20% (I think) of UUNet, a large service
provider, but their strategy here is unclear. It's a small company anyway.

Next there is the Internet community. I don't think the present community is
going to hand themselves over to M$, based on my reading of current net culture.
As millions of new users sign up, I guess this could change.

Then there are the services on the Net, such as gopher and Web servers (or
home pages), etc. etc., run by everybody from universities to college
students to Fortune 500 companies. It doesn't seem likely that they will all
abandon the Net. In fact, these services are exploding in number.

Finally there are new services such as electronic commerce, (sophisticated)
publishing and multimedia. These will grow as the telecomm infrastructure,
standards, law and technology progress. I'm certain that M$ wants to be a
big player in providing technology and services, and that they want a cut of
100% of every electronic financial transaction. I know that many others,
AT&T and News Corp/MCI as two examples, have other ideas. Although Microsoft
has important technology, it is small compared to many other companies.

Blackbird (see Robert Metcalf's InfoWorld recent column) is coming soon to
the Net and may have a big impact in the publishing arena.

Most projections I've read say that M$ will be a big provider of services,
both on the Internet and MSN. They think that the Net/Web will overtake MSN
in 3-5 years.

The world is moving into uncharted territory. I suppose Bill Gates is in a
good position to exploit these new opportunities, but so are others. It's
fun to speculate!

- - Duncan Carmichael

** Duncan Carmichael Potomac Intersystems, McLean, VA **
** [email protected] (703)-790-0980 & FAX (703)760-8992 **

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Date: 25 Aug 1995 12:12:46 -0700
From: [email protected] (John Audette)
Subject: Netiquette

I'd like to get the group's opinon on this.

We produce the Awesome Sports Site of the Week, in which we feature a sports
site and give our viewers a chance to rate it, which then determines the
site of the month (and year).

My question is, do you think it is appropriate to post the following message
to various sports-related usenet groups, on a rotating basis:

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------------------
We are seeking nominations for web sites to be featured on Awesome Sports
Site of the Week.

If you know of sports-related web sites that are well-designed with
interesting content that you would like to nominate, please send us the URL.
If we use your nomination, we'll send you an Awesome Sports Site of the Week
t-shirt.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------------------------

It feels OK to me, but Lord knows I've been wrong before, so I would like
the group's input. Thanks.

John
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
John Audette -- MMG, home of

The Awesome Sports Site of the Week
http://www.mmgco.com/online/awesome.html

Peter Jacobsen Productions
http://www.mmgco.com/pjp/
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

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Date: 25 Aug 1995 14:19:18 -0700
From: lee m levitt <[email protected]>
Subject: bad sites

> From: [email protected] (Elizabeth Lane Lawley)
>
> Does anyone know who worked on Fox's site? It's so bad I'm guessing they
> did it it themselves, but maybe I'm wrong. 57K background images, less than
> clear navigation, godawful color combinations, and painfully slow response
> time.
>

Interesting question. I spent some time yesterday looking for a few good
sites to exemplify how people are sellng, marketing, advertising,
recruiting, etc, on the net, and guess what, THEY ALL STINK! ;-)

No really, 95% of the sites just are awful...blow away every rule ever
put down with regard to good marketing, you know KSSS, and come across
with a message, etc...

I found a few doozies, including the new vw site. Clearly thrown up by
conventional media people who don't know that you can't just paste a
paper ad to your screen and have any success, particularly when all of the
follow on pages are Under Construction.

Any way, I did find a few good ones, including Genrad, Pioneer
Electronics, and a couple of others. For some reason the Microsoft site was
busy yesterday. ;-)

Does anyone have any really good *traditional* marketing sites they'd
like to point me to?

TIA,

Lee Levitt
Manager, Market Development
Process Software Corporation
www.process.com
[email protected]

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Date: 25 Aug 1995 14:59:21 -0700
From: "Thomas K. Higley" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

At 09:07 AM 8/25/95 -0700, you wrote:

>From: Daryl Ochs <[email protected]>

[deletion]

>But, what if you gave us the opportunity up-front to participate or not? I
>think many people would welcome the opportunity to receive a broad base of
>advertising, IF they felt they were in control of that happening initially,
>not just after the fact.

This seems to me to be the place to begin. Many, perhaps most, have an
aversion to unsolicited online correspondence--particularly unsolicited
commercial correspondence. But there are, I suspect, many people who would
welcome the opportunity to "opt in." To the extent that these persons can be
identified and targeted, they constitute a marvelous beginning point. There
are other benefits. I belive the net will look with favor on any company
that exercises restraint by limiting its "mailings" to those who have agreed
beforehand to be recipients.

>If I had received a well-crafted offer from you to be included in your list,
>rather than having to do something to be taken off, I think my initial
>reaction would have been far different.

A "well-crafted offer" can easily be included on a WWW page. Numerous sites
are doing this sort of thing now. C|Net does this. So do CDNow, Pathfinder
and many others.

Regards,
- --Tom
==================================================================
Thomas K. Higley
General Manager & Chief Executive Officer
Infocast Systems & Technology,
a Division of WebCast Colorado, LLC
19 Old Town Square, Suite 238
Fort Collins, CO 80524
Phone: 303-221-3377 Fax: 303-482-0251 Email: [email protected]
Alternate email: [email protected].

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Date: 25 Aug 1995 15:27:53 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Unsolicited Email

I've been following this thread, and in an effort to refine my netiquette
skills, I'd appreciate feedback from the readers.

(Not a plug, just for background info): Our business specializes in Web
Site Promotion and will launch in the next month. When I come across a
site and through some checking, find that it is barely represented in the
available search engines/directories/etc. on the Internet, I would consider
this to be a potential client that may benefit from our services.

Is the only appropriate way to inform them of my services by a direct phone
call to the appropriate department of their company? Would I be breaching
netiquette to send them a short email, say 90 characters, briefly
describing our services and asking them to contact us by email if they'd
like more info? I know that email is their dime and a phone call is mine,
which I am willing to spend to reach potential clients. They wouldn't be
hit with a barrage of auto send email, only a brief *personal* (not
generic) message to a site which we've found to be underpromoted on the
Net.

I don't want to break the rules, only use the Net as a means of
communicating with potential clients. The last thing I want to do is
alienate people through bad netiquette. Readers, I need your advice: phone
call first, phone call only, email first followed with phone call, or what?
Your feedback is appreciated.

Shari Peterson ([email protected]) Internet
Marketing
WEBster Group International Web
Site Promotion
2172 Butterfield, St. Louis, MO 63043 USA Voice 314-205-2004
Fax 314-205-0617
http://www.webstergroup.com/webster

Maximize your Web Site. Promotiion by WEBster increases sales & traffic.

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Date: 25 Aug 1995 15:30:11 -0700
From: [email protected] (Tor Rognmo)
Subject: Re: pointers to traditional marketing sites

Lee ([email protected]) asks for pointers to traditional, 'nuts and bolts'
marketing sites.

One I did a while ago is at http://www.nq.com/netquest/procarry/
No fancy hot-java, post Netquest or pre- civilwar wallpaper, just plain old
HTML with a couple of Netscape features and an online catalog and order form
thrown in. But the main thing is that it works, and is producing the desired
results, at a very reasonable cost to the client.
Tor Rognmo
Netquest Communications
http://www.nq.com/netquest/
323-1873 Spyglass Place, Vancouver, B.C. V5Z 4G6 CANADA

Fax: (604) 873-9397 E-mail: [email protected].net

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Date: 25 Aug 1995 16:01:05 -0700
From: [email protected] (Don Taylor)
Subject: Re: marketing by e'mail

I would think that each party - customer, vendor and manufacturer - has
something different to contribute. And I personally feel that interactions
of this type is one of the key business benefits to the Net. To me its
marketing through interaction, and isn't that what the Net is about?

But that is not what many are doing to use e-mail as a marketing tool.
For example, a short while ago I received e-mail about a software product
for something like interpersonal psychological evaluation. Do I have an
interest in this? Or is it merely a shotgun approach that even junk mailers
wouldn't use?

Doc

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
The Internet Business Division

---> Bridging the gap between business and the Internet. <----

310 Wells Ct Don Taylor, President Hampton, VA 23666-6240 USA
voice: 804.825.0294 email: [email protected], [email protected]
*** Member Virginia Peninsula Chamber of Commerce ***
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

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Date: 25 Aug 1995 16:03:34 -0700
From: [email protected] (Don Taylor)
Subject: Re: MSN swallowing Internet ? (Not a paranoiac PoV)

Joram:

I appreciate your translation and redistribution and would like to be
one of those contributing to your goal.

When MS offered Windows as the "standard PC interface" I agreed that
it was a product sold to management that was concerned with the prima donna
efforts of thousands of programmers to create "their" idea of the perfect
interface. (I was one of them.) Among the traditionally greatest problems
with software were the learning curve and interoperability (my second $2
word for the day). Every program had a different interface, different device
drivers, different data formats. Billy boy succeeded in satisfying a nascent
need that translated to dollars for the buyers, particularly in the corporate
world. IMNSHO it also had a great impact on the growth of PC acceptance. But
success ultimately relied on dissatisfaction - there really was a need for
something like Windows.

In considering MSN I see many similarities - one of the foremost being
to help the corporate world use their computers to generate revenue. But I
don't see the need to organize the Net in a fashion similar to organizing
the desktop. In fact I see several reasons why it won't work.

o The openness of the PC made it acceptable because business was
fed up with "the only way is the Blue way". America didn't want
closed-end, proprietary solutions any more; they wanted choices.

o The online services - AOL, CIS, etc - have had their chance to
be the "online interface" much like MS was the "desktop interface".
None of them has managed to become as dominant as MS did. In fact,
many people are leaving their proprietary, limited offerings, even
though they may have structural advantages, and opting for the
"open highway" - the Internet.

In short, I don't think we will have "InterMSN".

Doc

P.S. But I am taking an intermission.<g>

At 09:02 AM 8/25/95 -0700, [email protected] (Joram Rozewicz) wrote:

>Journalist Edouard Launet wrote:

<snip>

>Fourth: Interconnecting totally MSN and Internet (in a year). This is the
>most difficult part. This gateway being open both-sided, it will allow MSN
>users to go surfin' the Net. But Bill Gates is taking the chance that the
>Out-door will become an In-door. He bets on the quality of his service to
>have MSN become a black hole which will naturally absorb the Net.

<snip>

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
The Internet Business Division

---> Bridging the gap between business and the Internet. <----

310 Wells Ct Don Taylor, President Hampton, VA 23666-6240 USA
voice: 804.825.0294 email: [email protected], [email protected]
*** Member Virginia Peninsula Chamber of Commerce ***
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Aug 1995 08:30:00 -0700
From: Glenn Fleishman <[email protected]>
Subject: Going worldwide with Internet Marketing

I've been tossing around the idea of semi-franchising the Internet
Marketing list internationally. As many participants here have noted, the
Internet's international component in terms of non-English languages, is
highly undeveloped.

If anyone in a country whose native tongue is other than English would like
to moderate a list on the same subject as this one, we would provide the
list service and archives for that list. The cross-pollination could come
in the form of some translation of good posts back and forth.

Specifically, I'd be interested in starting Dutch/Flemish, German, and
French lists, judging by the participants' country domains on the current
list.

But there's no bar to other languages as well.

Glenn Fleishman
Moderator & worldwide dominator

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Aug 1995 08:33:57 -0700
From: [email protected] (Don Taylor)
Subject: Re: bad sites

At 02:19 PM 8/25/95 -0700, lee m levitt <[email protected]> wrote:
<nsip>

>Does anyone have any really good *traditional* marketing sites they'd
>like to point me to?
>

Lee:

A new version of the old ShopKeeper just opened at http://shops.net/.
This is somewhat of a mall but targetted at supporting small businesses -
literal shopkeepers - "traditional" businesses.

Except for the fact that they're largely in German, try these other new
sites.

o http://zebra-zh.zebraworld.net.ch/ Swiss TV
o http://www.eunet.ch/werbal/huber/ First rate Swiss book publisher

(http://www.eunet.ch/werbal/huber/Verlag/Medizin/med-7.html
contains some English examples)

I think the company that did them has responded well to the different
needs of the different target markets. The TV site is for youth; the
publisher for traditional conservatism (psychology, psychiatry and medical
books). Warning: some parts are under construction.

I think a non-American perspective on the market is also useful, no?
Good luck.

Don

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
The Internet Business Division

---> Bridging the gap between business and the Internet. <----

310 Wells Ct Don Taylor, President Hampton, VA 23666-6240 USA
voice: 804.825.0294 email: [email protected], [email protected]
*** Member Virginia Peninsula Chamber of Commerce ***
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Aug 1995 12:05:28 -0700
From: [email protected] (franke james)
Subject: Importing to US

Hi all,

I'd like to throw this question out to fellow list members:

We have an advertising/webdesign business in Canada. As an option on our
site we'd like to be able to offer some custom designed products for sale -
a James Gang t-shirt would be the first product available. In general, we
get a very positive response to the design and have been approached by
companies wanting to license it, so as a test item it seems like a good one
to start with.

However, I've heard that there are some formidable hurdles for any business
wanting to import textiles into the US - t-shirts are considered textiles.
(We're in Canada if you missed it.) Has anyone negotiated these waters? Any
advice? Any ideas on ways to minimize the red tape? Should I get them
manufactured in the States? Any list members want to provide service in
this area to us? (e-mail privately if so) BTW, we're planning to accept
First Virtual, and money orders, with credit cards as a later option.

Appreciate your input.

Franke

Franke James, MFA
The James Gang Adv. Inc.

The James Gang "Want ads" - http://www.jamesgang.com

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