|
|
 |
|
|
|
register |
bbs |
search |
rss |
faq |
about
|
|
|
meet up |
add to del.icio.us |
digg it
|
|
|
|
Internet Marketing Digest 0428
Internet Marketing Discussion List
Digest #0428
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Internet Marketing Discussion List is sponsored by
Okidata <http://www.okidata.com>
and Downtown AOL <http://downtown.web.aol.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To UNSUBSCRIBE send any text to the email address [email protected]
Send posts to [email protected]
This list is moderated by Glenn Fleishman <[email protected]>
For info about the list, send INFO INTERNET-MARKETING to [email protected]
Complete list archives: <http://www.popco.com/hyper/internet-marketing/>
For sponsorship info, add "sponsor.html" to that address
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In this digest:
Re: AOL Mail Problems ([email protected] (Walt Boyes))
Re: Junk email ([email protected] (Walt Boyes))
Fox WWW Site ([email protected] (Elizabeth Lane Lawley))
Subject: Re: Price as the ... & etc. ([email protected])
Re: Bulk e-mail to associations? ("Eugene Mallay" <[email protected]>)
Re: marketing by e'mail ([email protected] (Jim Sterne))
lost posting to inet mktg? ([email protected] (Jeanne Dietsch))
Re: Query: What actually works? ([email protected])
Re: MSN swallowing Internet ? (Not a paranoiac PoV ([email protected]
(James Cameron))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 25 Aug 1995 09:19:26 -0700
From: [email protected] (Walt Boyes)
Subject: Re: AOL Mail Problems
At least part of AOL's mail problems appear to have been done on
purpose.
As announced in "Mail/What's New" last week on AOL, the people who are
heavy internet email readers were offered a new "feature". In order to
keep from having the annoying message splits, AOL decided to only allow
the first 25k of any message (like a mailing list digest) to be
readable in the AOL online/offline mail reader. The rest of the
message had to be downloaded. At first these messages had a note
accompanying them explaining that to view them you had to download a
MIME-capable mail reader like Eudora, but suddenly they became
downloadable text files instead.
The problem is that the only way for a Windows-PC-based AOL user to
respond to digest based messages is to write the text of the message in
ye trusty word processor and _cut-and-paste_ (!no kidding!) it from the
Windows clipboard into the empty "compose Mail" window in AOL. MAC
users, of course, may import the text file naturally.
My reaction to all this is to move all my mailing list subscriptions
off of AOL. I also corresponded with AOL, and was assured that this
was a bug, and it was being fixed. But it wasn't a bug when it was
originally advertised as a bonus feature.
On this first official day of MSN, I can only conclude that somebody at
AOL did the "open mouth, insert foot, bite down hard" trick.
Walt Boyes
- --
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:: This cyberspace is under construction... ::
:: email: [email protected] ::
:: [email protected] (home of ISA Online) ::
:: [email protected] ::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 25 Aug 1995 09:21:34 -0700
From: [email protected] (Walt Boyes)
Subject: Re: Junk email
Steve O'Keefe wrote:
>unlisted e-mail addresses, and the ability to register with some
>central organization to be taken off junk e-mail lists.
Steve is correct about _some_ unsolicited email. I want to receive the
unsolicited email I'm interested in, and which appears to take some
pains to be directed to _me_. Bulk email to a large number of
recipients is liable to get chucked without reading, or flamed. So I
too would oppose legislation to make unsolicited email illegal.
Unsolicited faxes aren't illegal either, just junk mail. It is
analogous exactly to the difference between 1st class and bulk mail,
and people developing newsreaders and offline mail readers will develop
more sophisticated ways of filtering email. As of right now, I have
the most sophisticated filter ever created: my right index finger on
the "delete" key.
Walt Boyes
- --
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:: This cyberspace is under construction... ::
:: email: [email protected] ::
:: [email protected] (home of ISA Online) ::
:: [email protected] ::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 25 Aug 1995 09:24:48 -0700
From: [email protected] (Elizabeth Lane Lawley)
Subject: Fox WWW Site
Does anyone know who worked on Fox's site? It's so bad I'm guessing they
did it it themselves, but maybe I'm wrong. 57K background images, less than
clear navigation, godawful color combinations, and painfully slow response
time.
It also has this very odd copyright notice at the bottom of every page:
"Copyright and TM, 1995, FOX Broadcasting Company. All rights reserved. All
materials contained in FOX World are protected by copyright and trademark
and may not be used, retransmitted or reproduced for any purpose whatsoever
other than for personal home use. Public display or copying for sale or
public distribution of any materials on FOX World, FOX Network, FOX Kids,
FOX Sports, FOX Primetime, or FOX Entertainment is strictly prohibited. So
there."
Does this mean you can't view the pages at work, since they're only
licensed for "personal home use"? Talk about trying to fit square pegs into
round holes...
It's at http://www.foxnetwork.com/
Liz
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Elizabeth Lane Lawley, Director | Internet Training & Consulting Services|
| [email protected] | (800) WIRED-IN * (205) 333-8979 |
| http://www.itcs.com/elawley/ | [email protected] * http://www.itcs.com/ |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 25 Aug 1995 09:47:56 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Subject: Re: Price as the ... & etc.
Hello All;
> So successful items on the net seem to be unusual, impulse buys. Naturally
- -
> sites attract casual surfers through shmanzy graphics and witty repartee,
and
> the items follow suit. Business buyers aren't into net buying yet, and
> serious items lack surf appeal.
>
> Does anyone have any examples that contradict this? Is there a serious
> commodity site that I have missed (and that is successful)?
> Kim J. Smith?
We shall see very shortly if the Internet is a place for serious commodities.
You can now buy fresh California Peaches, and Artichokes and 250 other food
products direct from the farms in our area and you people in New York can
have them tomorrow morning, if you wish. [I smiled when I read Mary's new
world marketing dissertation. We think It's here now.]
Why did we choose the Internet? For one thing we have products which may be
in season for only three weeks (apricots). Or a new product comes on line but
we don't know it's appeal. What better place to test the reaction and better
still what better place to let our customers know, yesterday morning we
found a new Purple peach.... can't do any of that in print. (please don't
ask for them, the entire crop has been sold-really)
We are the first, all food store as far as we know. I will report back here
on what is happening or not....the first day was great.
By the way I learned a lot this last year or so in this group (how do I get
your snail mail address Glenn? :)....Among other things we have in our store
which we think is a first, "Fast View" © pages. It's an easy, fast way to
jump around our site and look at the 250 items without waiting. (think I got
the idea here)
Find us at ISNs Internet Shopping Mall. (Next to Omaha Steaks...who is doing
fine as far as I know) http://www.internet.net
I hear you Bob Novick, the real work now begins, getting our store known. I
liked his piece so much I even called to congratulate him......hmm and Promo
has 130,00 people on his bulk mail list, I wonder :)
Lynn Gunderson
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 25 Aug 1995 09:55:20 -0700
From: "Eugene Mallay" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Bulk e-mail to associations?
> From: karl@ksme.net (Karl S. Erbland)
> As marketers on the Internet we must have the ability to solicit without
> invitation. It is true that we probably could use some loosely accepted
> cultural rules, but not the ones that say "no, no, no you can't do that."
Why? Why *must* you have the ability to solicit without invitation?
While I would agree that many Internet users have a knee-jerk
reaction to commercial activity, the vast majority accept it without
complaint or concern. The key is to work *with* your prospects
instead of *against* them. Your attitude just antagonizes the very
people who would probably *want* to hear about your services if
approached properly.
Your attitude says: "Look, I've got a product to sell. I don't have
time to worry about your damn cultural quirks. Now, how many did you
say you want to order? What do you mean you don't want to order?
Sheesh - another idiot who doesn't know a good deal when he sees
one." While I'm being facetious, of course, I *do* hear this attitude
all the time from people trying to do business over the Internet.
An increasingly large percentage of my livelihood comes from selling
my publications, writing services, and consultation services over the
Internet. Yet I rarely get complaints. Marketing on the Internet
really isn't any different than marketing anywhere else. You just
need to understand the strengths and weaknesses of the medium and
build your strategy accordingly.
I never understand why so many people think that the opposite of
spamming is passiveness. You *do* have to be aggressive to sell over
the Internet - but that doesn't mean stuffing people's email boxes with
your junk mail. That's the 'used car saleperson' approach. Brute
force. Sticking your foot into the door. And so on.
Is that really the kind of business you want to be in?
I suggest you do the following:
1. Gather in-depth market research. In addition to the usual market
research questions, find out why your prospects are using the
Internet, how they are using it, how likely it is that they will
continue to use it (the novelty factory), and what experiences
they've had with commercial activity over the Internet.
2. Read some good books on direct marketing. Tip: avoid anything with
any of the following words in the title: "secrets of", "get rich",
"spare time", "easy steps", or "idiot's guide to...". A good book on
direct marketing will set you back US$50-60.
3. Apply basic direct marketing principles to the Internet and build
a list of marketing options. Most people *think* they're
*already* applying direct marketing techniques to the Internet.
However, I've never read a reputable direct marketing book that
recommended antagonizing your prospects. Likewise, direct
marketing experts certainly wouldn't recommend you sit back and
hope your prospects come find you (the www approach).
4. Develop an in-depth business strategy that maximizes the
advantages of the Internet while minimizing the weaknesses. Notice
that I said 'business strategy' and not just 'marketing strategy'.
The Internet will have implications on a number of areas of your
business, not just marketing. Make sure the strategy accounts for
your intended product positioning, differentiation, and long-term
objectives.
5. If you prepared your business strategy in less than a week and it
hasn't given you at least two headaches, start over. Your
strategy needs to be in-depth, with full consideration of the
implications of each activity on your other activities. Everything
should serve a specific purpose that is directly tied to your
goals and objectives. For example, it isn't good enough to say
that you'll promote your product by being active in suitable
newsgroups and mailing lists. Which newsgroups? What kind of
questions will you answer? Will you post to the newsgroup or mail
directly to the individual when answering questions? What specific
message will you seek to convey to the newsgroup? What
techniques/devices will you use to convey that message
(signatures, brief product references, announcements, surveys,
self-tests, 'columns', industry news, and so on).
6. Go through your business strategy carefully and analyze your
assumptions. In particular, examine assumptions that are
conventional wisdom on the Internet. For example, have you
over-emphasized the WWW to the detriment of email? I'm always
amazed at the number of businesses that have great web pages but
no pre-prepared ASCII files to send to those inquiring by email
(assumption being that their prospects all have web browsers and
actually intend to use them).
7. Test! Test! Test!
8. Study the results of your tests and revise your strategy until you
have at least two more headaches. <g>
9. Roll out your campaign, gather results, then start the whole
process over again in an effort to refine your strategy and
improve your results.
And there you have it. No easy answers. No '10 Steps To Internet
Success'. Your strategy has to be tailored to your product and to
your objectives. For example, for many strategies you won't need a
www page. For other strategies, a web page may be at the very core of
your marketing. Yet every list of Internet marketing tips I've seen
has said that a web page is a necessity, not an option. Why? Not
every business has a brochure. Not all have an '800' number. And if
you *do* have a web page, how does it fit into your overall strategy?
Piece of cake, right?
Cheers,
Eugene.
[email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 25 Aug 1995 10:24:43 -0700
From: [email protected] (Jim Sterne)
Subject: Re: marketing by e'mail
At 9:02 AM 8/25/95, From: [email protected] (Paul Eidsvik)
>Our approach is to PARTICIPATE in newsgroups and mailing lists which are
>relevant to our field. We participate in the discussions going on. We
>offer opinions and advice. We announce new developments in the field. We
>mention our products if they are relevant and if they might solve another
>participant's problem. We low-key any commercial approach. We might end a
>comment with a line like "if you are interested in more information let us
>know", followed by an 800 number and an email address.
This is not e-mail marketing, but newsgroup marketing and it
is _very_ effective. Paul and his company are setting themselves
up as a source of information, a voice of reason and a company
worth talking to when it comes time to by.
He is not foisting his message on the unwilling. In fact, he's
not foisting his message at all! Consider the difference between:
An e-mail in your mailbox that says:
We have the best bicycle tires in the Galaxy!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!! Buy them today !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
vs.
A post to alt.rec.bicycle.racing that says:
In answer to the post from Bob, we have found a more
rubberized tire will give a smoother ride and last longer
but doesn't have the features necessary to win a race.
-- you can find out more about this by reading our
'All About Tires' page at http://www.company.com
This is the kind of "personal branding" that Mary Morris
was talking about. It works, it's participating in the
gift-economy of the net and it doesn't offend.
---------------------------------------------------------
Jim Sterne Target Marketing
[email protected] (805) 965-3184
=========================================================
http://www.targeting.com
=========================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 25 Aug 1995 11:09:27 -0700
From: [email protected] (Jeanne Dietsch)
Subject: lost posting to inet mktg?
A new, searchable directory of web consultants and service providers is
being built by ActivMedia, Inc. and Tippecanoe Systems. We invite all those
involved in web construction, provision or other web services to submit
linked listings at:
The Marketer's Help Desk
http://www.activmedia.com
The directory will be available for searching by location, specialties, and
full-text searches using Tippecanoe's new search engine.
===================================================================
Jeanne Dietsch |"Who's Succeeding on the Internet
Vice President | and How?"
ActivMedia,Inc. | Survey data shows the crucial
[email protected] |differences between successful and
fax: 603/924-2184 | unsuccessful Net marketers
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
+ data from our latest research at http://www.activmedia.com +
===================================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 25 Aug 1995 11:39:39 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Query: What actually works?
In a message dated 95-08-25 10:44:18 EDT, [email protected] (Curt A.
Monash) writes:
>What strategies and tactics have been ACTUALLY SUCCESSFUL, so far?
Curt, not to duck it, but that is partly a matter of how you define success:
Word has drawn enough visitors and comments from its look and attitude to
attract advertisers who are going to pay thousands a month to be part of the
game. What kind of response/reward they draw is still in the future. Is
that a success?
Pathfinder has aggregated its big print names and services, plus new
services, at one site and claims 7 million hits a week (whatever that
translates into, sure sounds good) and will start charging in the future,
with no idea of what the drop-off is. Is that success?
Penthouse, I'm told, is generating a lot of CD-Rom and phone sex sales with
its come-ons, though nowhere near the proportion as yet as the print product
generates. Is this success?
Internet Providers are raking in home and business clients and putting up
pages for them and are definitely showing profits (the good ones) despite the
continuous equipment investments to handle the traffic. Is that success?
Nando, if we are to believe insider reports (and they have reps on this list
who will correct me if the reports are wrong) made such an impression with
its diverse and early web presence that it was a strong part of the recent
sales price for its parent newspaper. Is that success?
Now, if you are asking if any single web site is showing SUBSTANTIAL revenue,
easily projected as big profit beyond investment cost, with any services and
tactics worth sharing or emulating, this I have found (leaving erotica to
the side) is far more difficult to substantiate. One reason (aside from the
fact that it's still early days) is that success is not exclusively measured
by web site alone. For newspapers and others it is in conjunction with a
variety of information/marketing services, products and image building. It is
also a matter of what you can convince others to believe IS the future.
Dominique Paul Noth
[email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 25 Aug 1995 12:09:34 -0700
From: [email protected] (James Cameron)
Subject: Re: MSN swallowing Internet ? (Not a paranoiac PoV)
On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, "Internet Marketing discussion list"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>From: [email protected] (Joram Rozewicz)
>I have come across an article published in a French newspaper (Liberation,
>24 Aug.95) regarding Windows 95 and the threat that MSN might represent to
>the Internet. I believe that this should be brought to the attention of the
>respectable Internet Marketing-list participants and lurkers. I know that
>other news groups and mailing lists are dedicated to our friend Bill, but I
>believe that the issues raised are of prime concern to all of you Marketing
>Netizens.
[issues deleted]
I don't want to respond point-by-point to the issues listed.
This all makes for interesting copy, but frankly I think there
are far too many powerful forces that would be aligned against
any such thing ever happening, not the least of which is the US
Justice Department.
A far more likely scenario is that MSN will grow and offer
a variety of interesting services much like AOL. There will
be furious competition among MSN and AOL and Compuserve and
the telecoms for both consumers and content providers, but
the Internet will continue to evolve and attract both
businesses and consumers at an even more furious pace.
Fueling this will be entrants such as AT&T and even
cable companies.
Some analysts even seeing the commercial services leveling
off as a result of the Internet explosion.
Beyond that my crystal ball gets hazy, as should everyone elses.
Regards,
J. Cameron
______________________________
James Cameron Internet Training, Seminars and Consultation
Internos, Inc
Seattle, WA Upcoming:
ph 206 789 4831 "The Lawyer on the Internet"
[email protected] The Washington State Convention and Trade Center
December 6, 1995
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our Sponsors:
Okidata <http://www.okidata.com>
Okidata is a 23 year old company that's built its success on meeting
the computer printing needs of small to medium sized organizations
throughout North and South America
Downtown AOL <http://downtown.web.aol.com>
The streets of Downtown AOL are populated with an eclectic group of
merchants, offering products and services that span the spectrum from
novelty mousepads to regional gourmet food items.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
To the best of our knowledge, the text on this page may be freely reproduced and distributed.
If you have any questions about this, please check out our Copyright Policy.
totse.com certificate signatures
|
|
|
About | Advertise | Bad Ideas | Community | Contact Us | Copyright Policy | Drugs | Ego | Erotica
FAQ | Fringe | Link to totse.com | Search | Society | Submissions | Technology
|
|
|
|
|
|
