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Internet Marketing Digest 0420


Internet Marketing discussion mailing list

Digest #0420

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This list is moderated by Glenn Fleishman <[email protected]>
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In this digest:
Re: Bulk e-mail discussion ([email protected] (Daniel P Dern))
Re: Bulk e-mail discussion ([email protected] (Jim Sterne))
Commercial Scenarios on the Web (hoffman@colette.ogsm.vanderbilt.edu (Donna
Hoffman))
Bulk e-mail discussion
Re: e-mail and security ([email protected])
Unsolicited email (Glenn Fleishman <[email protected]>)
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Date: 20 Aug 1995 10:22:25 -0700
From: [email protected] (Daniel P Dern)
Subject: Re: Bulk e-mail discussion

Sanford the Promo guy ([email protected]) sez:

> ... Your answer will probably
> be, "I chose to subscribe to this mailing list. Your bulk-email recipients
> receive it without prior permission." My answer to that is ... If someone
> posts a commercial advertisement to a newsgroup, then I feel that they are
> opening a business relationship with the readers of that newsgroup. So, if I
> have a business related bulk e-mail list, then I should have the right to
> send them a note, in reply to their ad, telling them about my
> business-to-business e-mail services. If they are interested, they may
> advertise with my service, or simply read our postings ... OR they can send
> e-mail to our auto-remover, and they will never be bothered again. I would
> be interested to hear from people who feel that this is wrong behavior.

I don't see anything that you've send that I *DO* agree with.

Placing a commecial message in a newsroup does NOT implicitly say
"Sure, go ahead and add me to a mailing list I don't know about."

It is wrong behavior to autosubscribe someone, period.

Mailing them unsolicited it bad enough. Saying "Surprise, you're
on a list" is an order of magnitude worse.

I'll be happy to suggest your name for the Usenet Advertising Blacklist
if you continue these tactics.

Or perhaps somebody will simply subscribe you to, say, a few hundred
mailing lists.

Many people have finite limits on mailbox capacity, in # of messages
or total length. (Including AOLers, I believe.) What you are doing
constitutes potential denial of service to them; in any case, you're
A) SPENDING OUR MONEY to read YOUR ads, and B) SPENDING OUR TIME
(AND MONEY) to Unsubscribe to a service we never asked to be put on.

IMNSHO, this puts you in big time league of network abusers.

Daniel

Daniel Dern ([email protected]) Internet analyst, writer, pundit & curmudgeon

=> Ask me about * The Internet Paper Airplane(tm) * The Internet OFFramp(tm)
=> Click {HERE} to send me a digital nickel<a href="local://~/.wallet">Yum!</a>

(617) 969-7947 FAX: (617) 969-7949 Snail: PO Box 309 Newton Centre MA 02159
Author, The Internet Guide For New Users (McGraw-Hill, 1993) - info & stuff at
URL=gopher://gopher.dern.com:2200 and (under const.) http://www.dern.com:2205

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Date: 20 Aug 1995 10:25:38 -0700
From: [email protected] (Jim Sterne)
Subject: Re: Bulk e-mail discussion

At 7:07 PM 8/19/95, [email protected] (Paul Eidsvik) wrote:

>Let's be blunt about something else. Much of what is written in usenet
>newsgroups (much of what is on the internet in general) is pure drivel by
>any standard I know of. This "netiquette" that people claim to be so fond
>of is not exactly put in place by "rocket scientists" or people interested
>in pure academic discussion. Those who howl the most about it generally
>have their own axe to grind.
>
>Let's at least try to live in the real world here.

Real world time, Paul:

It makes no sense to irritate those whom you
wish to turn into customers. They will not buy
from you. If you can't think of it in terms of
societal cooperation, think of it in terms of
enlightened self-interest.

The hard part of all this is that we occasionally get
unsolicited e-mail that _is_ interesting. How many on
this list got the invitation from Intel:

At 10:47 AM 8/16/95, Intel Corporation, Internet Technology Lab wrote:

>
>Available in October, Intel's Internet and World Wide Web Catalog will
>be a comprehensive guide to third-party products and services for Intel
>architecture-based Internet and WWW solutions.
>
>In addition to listing your products and services, we will link your
>product, service, and company information to your home page. Similar
>services can cost as much as $500 per year, however, we are offering this
>service for free in order to increase awareness of Intel-based Internet and
>WWW solutions.

A free listing is a nice thing and Intel isn't some no-name,
Joe Huckster company. So, even though I don't know how they
got my name, I was interested in participating. I didn't
flame them for unsolicited mail, I followed their instructions:

>To sign-up, please visit the Intel WWW server at
>
> http://www.intel.com/iaweb/index.html

But then I got me a rude awakening. After filling out the form,
I read through the submission agreement, which said in part:

"By submitting this form, Vendor agrees to the following terms:

1.Vendor will sell and promote Intel architecture-based
products on the vendor's web site to which Intel provides a link."

That cut it. I was irritated. I even took the time to reply to
their invitation and tell them of their breach of netiquette.

My message bounced.

[smolder]

---------------------------------------------------------
Jim Sterne Target Marketing
[email protected] (805) 965-3184
=========================================================
http://www.targeting.com
=========================================================

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Date: 20 Aug 1995 13:47:31 -0700
From: hoffman@colette.ogsm.vanderbilt.edu (Donna Hoffman)
Subject: Commercial Scenarios on the Web

Greetings:

An html version of our paper on Web-based business models is now up on the
Project 2000 site. Open http://www2000.ogsm.vanderbilt.edu/

and click on "Commercial Scenarios..." under "What's New."

We welcome your comments and suggestions. This version is currently under
review at Journal of Computer-Mediated Communication for the special issue
on Electronic Commerce. The paper is practical and discusses the benefits
and limitations of various business models that have appeared on the Web.

Right now, we're working to track how sites are evolving over time, with a
special eye toward the discovery of new forms of commerce.

DLH
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Professor Donna L. Hoffman hoffman@colette.ogsm.vanderbilt.edu
Owen Graduate School of Management 615-343-6904 voice
Vanderbilt University 615-343-7177 fax
Nashville, TN 37203

Project 2000: http://www2000.ogsm.vanderbilt.edu/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Date: 20 Aug 1995 13:51:04 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: e-mail and security

Regarding the junk e-mail discussion going on. Here is my experience which
has also something to do with the lack of security on the internet.

Received some junk e-mail, which I totally hate. With over 200+ messages a
day, I sure don't want to read about some MLM crab. So, I told the sender
in no uncertain terms about it.

Two days later received lot's of very, very nasty e-mail regarding my two
page posting to all NBA sports groups -- about some product against
baldness etc.

Since I did not post any message to any group, I thought my internet
provider PSI could track this pretty easily to find the imposter --- very
wrong and naive I was!!

Here is how it was done -- the danger is, that this can also happen to YOU
at any time.

a.) Get a 7 day temporary account with PSI or any of the other providers.
Just call...

b.) give a false credit card number -- picked up from any Restaurant or
Store garbage dump.
(besides credit card companies do not provide names, if you call)

c.) give false name (any name) -- no matching of name to credit card account.

d.) post messages in the name you want to frame and nobody can track you.

This is a true example, how in the name of marketing, making the fast buck,
security is totally neglected. This is scary -- in my case a bunch of
e-mail messages were deleted and I have been called names I did not know
existed -- but, imagine posting messages in a business name, it could
totally wipe it out -- at least on the internet.

This, I think is a topic, which should be discussed.

Greetings, <:-)> Peter </:-)>

| |\ /| http://www.mediatec.com/mediatech/
| <Live Markup>PRO WYSIWYG HTML Editor for Windows
|___ | \/ | ftp.mediatec.com/pub/mediatech/

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Date: 20 Aug 1995 13:59:23 -0700
From: Glenn Fleishman <[email protected]>
Subject: Unsolicited email

I thought I'd take a stand on this issue. I think it's terrific that we're
having a real dialog with people involved in this field.

My take on it:

* Unsolicited email and other spams should be made illegal in as many
countries as possible, just as unsolicited faxes are illegal in the U.S.

* Sending unsolicited email should convey the legal right to the service
provider or network provider to cancel the user's account with the same
kind of provisos given to physical evictions (also, you shouldn't be able
to follow it up the line: if BlottoNet has 1,000 users and one of them does
a spam, BlottoNet's provider shouldn't have the right to cancel BlottoNet
unless BlottoNet doesn't take appropriate action in their lights).

* Mailers who use solicit or approved email should be required to keep all
email and other messages which authorize them to send email to someone,
including headers, so that message id #s and transaction lines can be
checked (they can be forged, but it requires some knowledge of *each*
sendmail or SMTP mailer to forget it) in the event of a dispute.

Sure, all people have to do is run the spams from countries that don't pass
these laws. But in doing so, if they can be tracked back to a country in
which it is illegal (and what commercial spam couldn't be?) they would be
caught.

Is this extreme? I don't think so. Commercial speech, at least in the
United States, is subject to substantially more guidelines and regulation
than public speech.

I don't see these regulations being able to affect average individuals,
only businesses. Although an article I read recently said that companies
are cracking down on "useless" email, both internal and from the outside
world. One company said that one non-business message sent to the entire
company (which was possible in their internal mailsystem) cost the company
several hundred or maybe thousands of dollars in lost productivity.

Glenn Fleishman
Moderator

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