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Internet Marketing Digest 0418
Internet Marketing discussion mailing list
Digest #0418
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
In this digest:
Re: Bulk e-mail discussion ([email protected])
Re: Bulk e-mail discussion (marym@Finesse.COM (Mary Morris))
Re: Bulk e-mail discussion ([email protected])
Re: Comparison shopping with the Web ([email protected] (Paul "the
soarING" Siegel))
Internic Registrations pass the 100,000 mark ("Mike Walsh" <[email protected]>)
Re: Bulk e-mail discussion ([email protected])
Re: Bulk e-mail discussion ([email protected] (Albert Lunde))
Re: Bulk e-mail discussion (Kevin Littlejohn <darius@reverie.interworld.com.au>)
Re: Bulk e-mail discussion (Kevin Littlejohn <darius@reverie.interworld.com.au>)
Re: How do you visualize the Web? (Matthew James Marnell
<[email protected]>)
Re: Brave New World - Slightly related to: New Thread (Matthew James
Marnell <[email protected]>)
Re: Bulk e-mail discussion (marym@Finesse.COM (Mary Morris))
Hello and a shameless plug ([email protected] (Tim Windsor))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 18 Aug 1995 18:33:56 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Bulk e-mail discussion
<<<<<Sanford, thanks for responding to the concerns raised on the
Internet marketing list. Since you are providing some type
of mass-email service, please suggest the following to your
clients: When sending out an e-mail message, never have more
than about 60 characters on one line because some e-mail
packages may truncate the last few characters of the line, or
may turn one line into two lines making it difficult to read.>>>>>
The first line in every bulk-email sent says ...
<-- For best format, extend your window across the screen -->
I believe that should fix the problem. What do you think?
<<<<<Secondly make sure that any note going out has an e-mail
address in the body of the note, or in the signature file.
Your recent posting to Internet-marketing makes both of
these errors.>>>>>
We do insist on that, too. I thought that the internet-marketing mailing
list automatically puts our e-mail at the beginning of the message. Am I
wrong?
<<<<<My question to you: Where did you get the 6,000 e-mail
addresses that are in your database?>>>>
We don't have 6,000 ... We have 131,800. We only send to people who place
business ads on classifieds, newsgroups, and web sites. We have an
auto-remover for anyone who does not wish to receive our mailings.
Sanford Wallace
[email protected]
Promo Enterprises
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 18 Aug 1995 18:36:32 -0700
From: marym@Finesse.COM (Mary Morris)
Subject: Re: Bulk e-mail discussion
Sanford Wallace said:
> Anyway, I just wanted to address those issues, and like I said earlier, I
> invite any discussion about the advantages and disadvantages of using a
> mass-email service, who believes that they are handling the service in a
> responsible and correct manor.
One of the key concepts about marketing on the Internet is the
segmentation of the audience. There is more information than any
sane being can handle, so people impose filtering systems such
as only subscribing to a select set of email lists, only reading
certain news groups and such. Most people that I have spoken
to indicate that they prefer information that is targeted specifically
for them. From the stuff that I have seen about Promo Enterprises,
I haven't seen any real segmenation. In fact, I can't say that
I have even seen the level of segmentation that I see in lists
of names advertised in most opportunity magazines, such as
"opportunity seekers", "MLM", "work-at-home" catagories.
I suspect that the low response levels that are generated by the
bulk-email may be due to the fact that many of the receiptiants
may not be interested in the product.
Case in point: Let's say I am selling a health product to minimize
the impact of stress with a set of herbs called "adaptogens" in a
proprietary mixture. For $600 I can put an 8-1/2x11
sheet of paper (both sides) in a monthly mailing to ~3000 people
of a Smart Drugs/Longevity newsletter. Based upon other responses,
I would expect to receive about 90 responses most of which are
either already sales (ie they call to order) or I can probably
convert to a sale when they call for more information. If
I make $7 a bottle or $630 for this ad, I have recouped my
ad costs, increased awareness, maybe generate ongoing sales, and
often people tend to keep the ad sheets around with the newsletter
so I have a chance to make a sale later.
Now if I use a bulk-email setup that isn't specifically for
any group, I can reach tens of thousands of people with a
teaser that they can follow up with auto response email. Since
the auto response email would be equivelent to the newsletter
mailout, I need about 3000 auto responder inquiries to generate
the same number of sales (theoretically, when the moon isn't green).
Has anyone from any bulk-email service been able to lay claim to
that many responses?
Mary
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 18 Aug 1995 18:38:43 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Bulk e-mail discussion
<<<<<we will never resort
to bulk "junk" e-mail. The reason is simply that many people pay for
their online service based on number of messages, bytes downloaded,
and/or time spent online. In essence, the target of your e-mail is
paying to receive it. Mail sent thru the US Postal Service, on the other
hand, costs the receipient nothing.>>>>>
Who is to say that bulk-email is "junk". Many people, like the people on
this mailing list, are very interested in other on-line business activity.
When I post this message to this mailing list, people who receive it must
pay for their on-line time to read it. If you no longer wish to receive
postings from this mailing list, you can unsubscribe. Well, that is exactly
what Promo Enterprises offers to their recipients. Your answer will probably
be, "I chose to subscribe to this mailing list. Your bulk-email recipients
receive it without prior permission." My answer to that is ... If someone
posts a commercial advertisement to a newsgroup, then I feel that they are
opening a business relationship with the readers of that newsgroup. So, if I
have a business related bulk e-mail list, then I should have the right to
send them a note, in reply to their ad, telling them about my
business-to-business e-mail services. If they are interested, they may
advertise with my service, or simply read our postings ... OR they can send
e-mail to our auto-remover, and they will never be bothered again. I would
be interested to hear from people who feel that this is wrong behavior.
Sanford Wallace
President
Promo Enterprises
[email protected]
[email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 18 Aug 1995 18:39:18 -0700
From: [email protected] (Paul "the soarING" Siegel)
Subject: Re: Comparison shopping with the Web
You wrote:
>Ooooooh!
>
>Sorry Paul,
>
>I just have to jump in here and correct this view point. Competition
and cooperation are not opposing strategies. In terms of game theory,
the Industrial Society is a competitive game of competing for
cooperation.
>Peter Small
Thank you for your comment.
But I say we are no longer in the Industrial Society. Nor are we in
the Information Society, as many suggest. The emphasis is not on
information which comes from others, but on knowledge which grows in
your head when learning. I call it the Learning Society.
Owning property and gadgets brings on competition. Trying to learn how
to solve problems is better accomplished by cooperation. To turn your
phrase around, The Learning Society is a cooperative game of
cooperating for competition. Competition exists everywhere you go. We
don't need more. We need a method of building community so ALL people
benefit.
Before the businessman has been in control. Today, especially on the
Internet, each individual is in conctrol. Business people need to find
out how to help the individual or he will not come to your door
(website).
- --
Live Your Vision
Paul "the soarING" Siegel, [email protected]
Author, DESIGN YOUR FUTURE, a book that will make YOU soar
See "PAINT-A-VISION" at web-site: http://www.resume.net/paint1.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 18 Aug 1995 18:42:04 -0700
From: "Mike Walsh" <[email protected]>
Subject: Internic Registrations pass the 100,000 mark
The number of unique domains passed the 100,000 mark on or about Aug. 15th.
Kraft registers 133 product names including Velveeta and Sanka. Procter
& Gamble registers 52 names including Luvs and Metamucil. And it had
to happen sometime... a Baltimore based law firm registers 24 company
and product names on behalf of its clients.
The splits were as follows:
.com's 86,469
.org's 7,622
.net's 4,769
.edu's 1,956
total 100,816
Commercial domains jumped over 10,000 in the two week period since the
close of July. This is the largest two week jump since we started
tracking registrations in April 94.
For the curious I have the Kraft and the P&G registrations list at
http://www.webcom.com/~walsh
Alternatively, you can just go to your local supermarket and visualize
a .COM after every product name.
Mike Walsh
Internet Info
703-578-4800
The Internet Millionaires List http://www.webcom.com/~walsh/million.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 18 Aug 1995 18:43:07 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Bulk e-mail discussion
I knew the bulk-email topic would stir up some interest ;-)
MaryM writes:
<<<<<One of the key concepts about marketing on the Internet is the
segmentation of the audience. There is more information than any
sane being can handle, so people impose filtering systems such
as only subscribing to a select set of email lists, only reading
certain news groups and such. Most people that I have spoken
to indicate that they prefer information that is targeted specifically
for them. >>>>>
That is a very good point. I have implemented some things to address that
exact issue. Read below ...
<<<<<From the stuff that I have seen about Promo Enterprises,
I haven't seen any real segmenation. In fact, I can't say that
I have even seen the level of segmentation that I see in lists
of names advertised in most opportunity magazines, such as
"opportunity seekers", "MLM", "work-at-home" catagories.>>>>>
That is where you are partially wrong. Promo has put all efforts into the
co-op mailings to the full mailing list. Mondays-General 5 line teasers,
Wednesday-General 3 line teasers, Thursday-Computer-related-only,
Fridays-Business-opportunities-only. Yes, we do send all of the categories
to all of the list, but we entitle the subject field with the type of mailing
enclosed. This way, people won't waste time reading postings that are not of
interest to them, and they can save any postage as well. We will be
segmenting the mailings even more, over the next couple of months.
<<<<<I suspect that the low response levels that are generated by the
bulk-email may be due to the fact that many of the receiptiants
may not be interested in the product.>>>>>
Who's to say that the response is low. That is where almost everyone is
wrong. 80% of the advertisers come back for more. Most people are
dissapointed with their web pages, but not with the response rate to
responsible bulk-email.
<<<<<Case in point: Let's say I am selling a health product to minimize
the impact of stress with a set of herbs called "adaptogens" in a
proprietary mixture. For $600 I can put an 8-1/2x11
sheet of paper (both sides) in a monthly mailing to ~3000 people
of a Smart Drugs/Longevity newsletter. Based upon other responses,
I would expect to receive about 90 responses most of which are
either already sales (ie they call to order) or I can probably
convert to a sale when they call for more information. If
I make $7 a bottle or $630 for this ad, I have recouped my
ad costs, increased awareness, maybe generate ongoing sales, and
often people tend to keep the ad sheets around with the newsletter
so I have a chance to make a sale later.
Now if I use a bulk-email setup that isn't specifically for
any group, I can reach tens of thousands of people with a
teaser that they can follow up with auto response email. Since
the auto response email would be equivelent to the newsletter
mailout, I need about 3000 auto responder inquiries to generate
the same number of sales (theoretically, when the moon isn't green).>>>>>
First of all, that is a very unfair comparison. Most ads do not pay for
themselves in product sales, with just about any medium. Secondly, You can't
compare a one page ad in a newsletter, to a requested auto-response message.
Anyone who requests an auto-response is definately interested in more info
on that product. Only a small percentage of people will actually read the
newsletter ad as attentively as a requested auto-responder.
If the same advertisor spends $49 on a co-op bulk-email, they need just 7
sales to break even. I think that it would be reasonable to assume that 7
people would be interested, out of 131,800 recipients ... probably more
believable than your newsletter assumption. And, they will receive even more
... "awareness, maybe generate ongoing sales, and
often people tend to keep the ad sheets" ... in the form of a printout.
Feedback please.
Sanford Wallace
President
Promo Enterprises
[email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Aug 1995 09:33:18 -0700
From: [email protected] (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Bulk e-mail discussion
> [...] My answer to that is ... If someone
> posts a commercial advertisement to a newsgroup, then I feel that they are
> opening a business relationship with the readers of that newsgroup.
BZzzz... Thank you for playing.
Do you have _any_ idea how many people read (and post) to news?
If I got email from 0.01% of the people who read newsgroups
I post to I'd be swamped with junk. i
The rule of thumb you should use is simple: don't send
unsolicited e-mail.
If someone wants to get your list they can subscribe: if it's
really useful, you shouldn't have trouble getting subscibers.
- --
Albert Lunde [email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Aug 1995 09:36:41 -0700
From: Kevin Littlejohn <darius@reverie.interworld.com.au>
Subject: Re: Bulk e-mail discussion
>
> From: [email protected]
>
> The first line in every bulk-email sent says ...
>
> <-- For best format, extend your window across the screen -->
>
> I believe that should fix the problem. What do you think?
*chuckle*
I don't believe that you can sit there and say "you change your system"
when you are trying to sell something to someone.... What happened to
pleasing the customer?
Besides that, many people are _not_ using a windowing system (or a
resizeable window)... There are many, many technologies out there,
if you are selling a product, you need to cater for a reasonably
low denominator...
(There's also many people who wouldn't know _how_ to resize their window.:)
>
> <<<<<My question to you: Where did you get the 6,000 e-mail
> addresses that are in your database?>>>>
>
> We don't have 6,000 ... We have 131,800. We only send to people who place
> business ads on classifieds, newsgroups, and web sites. We have an
> auto-remover for anyone who does not wish to receive our mailings.
>
Ouch! So, If I advertise on my web site, or post an advert to a commercial
group, I get put on your remailer _without being asked?_ That is a severe,
blatant breach of netiquette, costs me money, takes my time and effort to
get me removed, and is generally a pain in the ***.
Personally, if I received any advertising this way, I would not only avoid
the product, I would recommend to others that they not buy the product, and
would avoid buying any of that companies products ever again.
> Sanford Wallace
> [email protected]
> Promo Enterprises
The internet is still a reasonably new media. Our usenet readings and our
E-Mail boxes are considered "private property". If you infringe our privacy,
you have to expect negative responses. (ie. not only will people refuse to
buy the product, but in many cases will never buy _anything_ from that
company again, and will actively encourage others to not do so.)
If people want to use the internet for marketing, the first thing they should
do is learn how the media operates and what is considered "etiquette" or good
practice (tips hat to Internet Marketing List :), rather than blindly
applying previous marketing strategies, then wondering what went wrong. :)
(I do think there is a place for mail-services like yourselves, but you have
to add value, and you have to respect people's right to privacy.)
KevinL
(still a bemused techie :)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Aug 1995 09:40:22 -0700
From: Kevin Littlejohn <darius@reverie.interworld.com.au>
Subject: Re: Bulk e-mail discussion
> That is where you are partially wrong. Promo has put all efforts into the
> co-op mailings to the full mailing list. Mondays-General 5 line teasers,
> Wednesday-General 3 line teasers, Thursday-Computer-related-only,
> Fridays-Business-opportunities-only. Yes, we do send all of the categories
> to all of the list, but we entitle the subject field with the type of mailing
> enclosed. This way, people won't waste time reading postings that are not of
> interest to them, and they can save any postage as well. We will be
> segmenting the mailings even more, over the next couple of months.
Sorry I lost the attribution, but I think everyone knows whose this was :)
1) Seperating by time is, well, a waste of time *chuckle*
There is no real distinction as far as the system is concerned, you just
get people who don't want to log in on some days because they know their
mail box is full of stuff they don't want to read.
2) How are people saving postage? Do you understand the system you are
using? at all? Once the message reaches the person's mailbox, they pay
for it. That has nothing to do with whether they read it, or even whether
they have it kill-filed or not. If you send something to someone, and it
reaches their machine, they pay for it. If you were providing a way of
only being _sent_ certain mail, then they can save money.
My biggest problem with the whole idea is that you add people to the list,
and start sending them ads, without asking them. This kinda rates with adding
people to a list and calling them, reverse-charge, every couple of hours with
a new ad, without asking them first.
The idea that "It's ok, they can cancel" doesn't hold water... do you provide
instructions on how to cancel in every message you send out? You should.
Basically, what you are saying to the consumer, is "we will advertise, you
will pay for said adverts, and if you don't want to, you have do something."
I always thought the best way to reach customers was to provide something
they wanted, not foist something they didn't ask for onto them.
Oh, and to top it off, you gather names of people who have advertised
already, people who are generally business people and have enough to do
without having to respond to some "bulk email" listserver, or plow through
automated advertising.
As per my last post, add value... provide a "what's new", "where can I get..",
anything other than "bulk advertising"... Provide a web-page archive, make
it a service, and for god's sake _ask_ before you put people on the list...
or better, let people subscribe rather than brute-force subscribing people.
KevinL
(Thinking: Consumers are retailers too... they are selling their attention.
Is your bid high enough? :)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Aug 1995 09:54:52 -0700
From: Matthew James Marnell <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: How do you visualize the Web?
} From: Peter Small <[email protected]>
} At first, I thought the construction of a conceptual model would be easy.
} After five days of rambling I began to realize that this wasn't anything
} you could model simply. It then suddenly clicked: the Web has all the
} characteristics of a living organic structure.
I don't think you're out of your skull, you're just not taking this deep
enough. The web isn't the evolving creature, the Internet is, and the
web is a logical step in it's evolution.
I don't have the source in front of me, but dear old mum, the psychologist,
brought something home for me a couple years back. I wish I had it here
now. Basically what it said was that during times of stress, the main
backbone routers (then ANS) exhibited patterns that corollate to the brain-
wave patterns in a schizofrenics(sp?) brain.
Don't laugh yet. The Internet was built to survive. That was it's goal,
and still is. Like the saying goes, the Internet sees censorship has
damage and mends itself. That's how "we" built it and it does it well.
It gets scarier. Basically the Internet is approaching being a large
neural net. The routers are getting smarter not just so they make sure
all your packets get where they're going, but that they get there as
fast as they can, with a minimum of overhead. The protocols are getting
smarter. Anyone look at some of the things in store for HTTP-NG? How
about some of the software that people are working on for not just the
web but other services.
How about the hardware? Parallel processors, rpc to have many machines
do quickly what one machine would take longer to do. Of course, no one
computer will achieve sentience real soon (especially anything running Bob)
but many OS's and setups already compensate for a lot of stuff you throw
at them.
Nope, I for one don't think anyone is out of their skull if they view
the Internet as a model of chaos. I haven't followed Chaos theory enough
lately but I think there would be an excellent argument that the Internet
is probably one of the best models put forth lately. Anyone know someone
in that field who might want to take a look at the Internet from that
standpoint? I'm sure they're on the Internet already.
Internet achieves sentience, film@11.
Matt
- --
Matt Marnell Portia Communication & Internet Services
CEO/CIO Inet Consulting, Training, Info Services
[email protected] Web Authoring and Unix Consulting and Admin
http://www.portia.com v: (513)435-6534 f: (513)435-6643
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Aug 1995 10:00:03 -0700
From: Matthew James Marnell <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Brave New World - Slightly related to: New Thread
} From: Joe Andrieu <[email protected]>
}
} I've heard several real life stories of people
} who met on the Net and are now 'involved' or married.
I don't want to get an invite from a talk show, but the wife and I
did this. It was quite fun actually. I'm writing a book about it.
There is a lot of this going on, bringing back to one of the my
favorite stats, although I don't know if it's still true, that
email is one of the most used apps on the Internet. Actually, I
can't see how it isn't still the original killer app. I still
know a lot of people that use it for that and that alone, and a
lot more people who are getting on now, just to use mail.
Is there a version of talk for PPP and SLIP?
The apps that have by far the most people using them still are truly
interactive. IRC/telnet/IBBSs/talk. The phone products have the a niche
to fill as well. The products coming out now promise to fill these gaps
for the web. People are working on making browsers that can talk to each
other. Java, VRML, Lingo, ScriptX, Scheme, Python, Perl, Frontier, and
Applescript fill in the interactivity spaces.
Yes, we're on an horizon with lots of paths out in front of us.
Matt
- --
Matt Marnell Portia Communication & Internet Services
CEO/CIO Inet Consulting, Training, Info Services
[email protected] Web Authoring and Unix Consulting and Admin
http://www.portia.com v: (513)435-6534 f: (513)435-6643
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Aug 1995 10:01:38 -0700
From: marym@Finesse.COM (Mary Morris)
Subject: Re: Bulk e-mail discussion
Sanford responded with:
> Promo has put all efforts into the co-op mailings to the full mailing list.
> Mondays-General 5 line teasers, Wednesday-General 3 line teasers,
> Thursday-Computer-related-only, Fridays-Business-opportunities-only.
> Yes, we do send all of the categories to all of the list, but we entitle
> the subject field with the type of mailing enclosed. This way, people
> won't waste time reading postings that are not of
> interest to them, and they can save any postage as well.
Where do I begin?
First, you don't save postage with emails that are prelabeled on
90-95% of the email systems to date. The email goes into the
person's space and sits there until deleted. If the user is charged
for diskspace or transfers, there is a cost involved here.
Secondly, 5 line teasers and 3 line teasers do nothing to segragate
people for specific interest. I don't have a clue as to how many
3 line teasers come in a message (and I don't want to) but the
thought of it conjures up an unordered classified ads section or
a page of a dictionary. Someone might scan the visible ads (ie
the top 5-6 on a 20 line display) and nuke it without looking
any farther. A bored person might go a little farther down. Have
you done any statistics about placement within the email compared
to responses to see how far people read? I think that this fits
into the same catagory as web pages. People don't always scroll
down. I'd hate to be in a random queue of 3 line ads. I'd never
know where my placement was going to be. There are a lot of
things to be learned from classical advertising and this is
one of them. Placement has value.
The Thursday/Friday ads might have a slight bit better chance, but
that still seems kind of broad to me.
> Who's to say that the response is low.
What do you consider good response? I would say that less than 1%
generated interest is not good.
> 80% of the advertisers come back for more. Most people are
> dissapointed with their web pages, but not with the response rate to
> responsible bulk-email.
First of all, just because the advertisers come back doesn't mean
that they have proof that this method works better than others.
I'm inclined to believe that the old shotgun school of advertising
is a bunch of lemmings. (No offense intended to anyone personally).
Second of all, putting up a web page doesn't generate traffic or
interest. Anyone who believes that a web page without many breadcrumb
trails to the website will be effective, is doomed to disappointment.
Email is an active marketing method. A web site is a passive one.
If you look back in the archives, I think I said that about 9 months
ago or so. Of course an active method will succeed better than a
passive one, but will an intellegent breadcrumb program coupled
with a web site do better or worse than bulk-email?
Would you care to put this to the test? I have a web page that I have
built links to from many different sources. I can tell you what
the results of my breadcrumbs were. Shall we try an email test
to see if it gets better response? Fair warning here, out of
an estimated audience of about 125,000 people, I recieved
over 1000 hits more than normal the first day I announced it,
about 450 the second day, about 150 the third day, and it returned
to about normal on the 4th day. That is a 1% response rate.
I'd love to try things side by side and see what stacks up.
> <<<<<Case in point: Let's say I am selling a health product [snip]>>>>>
> First of all, that is a very unfair comparison. Most ads do not pay for
> themselves in product sales, with just about any medium.
How do you pay for the ads if not in generated sales?
In all fairness, I would actually say that the flyer is more equivelent
to receiving a catalog than a classical ad that has no verification
behind it. In this case, there isn't any local source of the product and
if the reader doesn't actively contact the company they maynot have another
opportunity.
> Secondly, You can't compare a one page ad in a newsletter, to a requested
> auto-response message. Anyone who requests an auto-response is definately
> interested in more info on that product.
Anyone who responds to a 3 line message such as the following:
"a health product to minimize the impact of stress with a set of herbs
called "adaptogens" in a proprietary mixture."
respond to email@address for more info
...has no more or less interest in this "unknown" product than the person who
is willing to read the flyer in the newsletter. The newsletter
reader can just as easily toss the flyer without reading it. The
trivial act of asking for more info doesn't indicate anything more
than momentary interest. I have sent off for more information on
something that caught my eye for the moment and by the time the
response came back, I wasn't interested anymore. The net is very
much akin to MTV in its attention span.
Mary
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Aug 1995 10:03:26 -0700
From: [email protected] (Tim Windsor)
Subject: Hello and a shameless plug
Hi. I just joined this list today, so I expect to just sit back and absorb
the atmosphere for awhile before jumping in with my big fat hairy opinions.
:^)
I'm the creative director of an ad agency in Baltimore. We're designing
four different websites right now, though none is yet even in public beta.
I thought I'd mention my website, BURMA SHAVE, which is a review of what's
good in internet advertising.
http://www.charm.net/~windsor/todayad.html/
The site is currently in the summer doldrums (i.e. not a lot of new stuff),
but it has some great links to some extraordinary commercial websites (none
of which I am connected with) dating back to April.
Enjoy. And PLEASE let me know of any well-designed commercial sites which
should be linked there. It's time to bring my site back up to date.
Tim Windsor
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Tim Windsor ([email protected])
Is there any decent advertising on the Internet? Check out
BURMA SHAVE, my (semi)critical review of the best of what's out there:
http://www.charm.net/~windsor/todayad.html
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