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Internet Marketing Digest 0414
Internet Marketing discussion mailing list
Digest #0414
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d.b.Express - data visualization and decision support tools
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In this digest:
Re: Comparison shopping with the Web ([email protected] (Paul "the
soarING" Siegel))
Re: Comparison shopping with the Web (marym@Finesse.COM (Mary Morris))
Pricing Web Links ([email protected] (Ted Haynes))
Re: An alternative to the Web ([email protected])
Re: Media Question ([email protected] (Jeroen Doucet))
Update to WEB DIAMONDS(tm ("TOM VASSOS MBA BES" <[email protected]>)
RE: Comparison shopping with the Web (Tonny Yu <[email protected]>)
Visceral sizzle or WADD? ([email protected] (Josh Reynolds))
Re: Linking to Competitors ([email protected] (Peter Arguelles ))
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Date: 15 Aug 1995 07:37:45 -0700
From: [email protected] (Paul "the soarING" Siegel)
Subject: Re: Comparison shopping with the Web
You wrote:
>
>So I don't see the Web as promoting competition any more successfully
than mailorder catalogs or retail shopping centers. It's too bad,
because computer technology certainly promises this advantage.
I agree that the Web does not support competition. And I think this is
great!
The Web is oriented to the Individual who wants to learn something, NOT
to the person who wants to sell. If you want to "sell" you must first
determine how what you're providing is useful to other people. Then
you have to help them learn about what you offer (through links). When
they get to your site they want to learn something useful for
themselves. If not, they will not return.
The Web is just the wrong vehicle for comparison shopping.
>
>
This is another story. The Web is an excellent vehicle for comparison
shopping. An outfit like Consumer Reports will make a killing. It's
oriented to the individual and provides information that he needs.
Let me say one more thing. The way to get along on the Internet - I
don't care what you want to use it for - is by cooperation.
Competition will get you nowehere. Competition was the essence of the
old Industrial Society. Cooperation is the way to go in the new
Learning Society.
- --
Live Your Vision
Paul "the soarING" Siegel, [email protected]
Author, DESIGN YOUR FUTURE, a book that will make YOU soar
See "PAINT-A-VISION" at web-site: http://www.resume.net/paint1.html
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Date: 15 Aug 1995 07:40:33 -0700
From: marym@Finesse.COM (Mary Morris)
Subject: Re: Comparison shopping with the Web
[email protected] said:
> I don't think there is enough competition on the web to worry about
> comparison shopping - pricing and comparison just aren't relevant there yet.
> Didn't we once have a thread about how consumers are so scared of buying
> over the net, thanks to media hype?
I would agree that there isn't enough competition, *today*, for it
to be relevant. However, that doesn't address 6 months from now. There
is a national magazine called "Computer Shopper" that is basically
about 800-1000 pages of mostly ads. People said that this was stupid
because people were scared of buying via "mail-order". Dell became a
big company because people didn't listen to what they were supposed
to be afraid of. Computer Shopper became a big magazine for the
same reason.
I would also note that the average Computer Shopper shopper does do a lot
of comparison shopping. It should take about 6 months for value-add
publishers like our current example to become fairly mainstream.
I look forward to the day that I can do real comparison shopping over
the net. Unfortunatly for me, most of the best deals come from small
hole-in-the-wall startups that only advertise locally. (I live in
Silicon Valley so computer prices for me are often cheaper than
Computer Shopper - but we do have a local equivelent called MicroTimes
which does an exceptionally good job for me).
> The things that are worthy of comparison shopping are simple commodity goods
> that are the same anywhere - Kmart, Walmart, Office Depot, Costco etc. Office
> supplies and Fruit of the Loom are the same everywhere. These items will
> never be successful on the net because people generally buy from a cheap,
> local supplier, and it is hard to beat big retailers' and warehouse prices,
> even by mail order.
<side track> Does anyone remember the old days when commodities were
"raw" materials like steel? </sidetrack>
Personally, I would give a lot to have these big retailers and warehouses
online where I can purchase anytime and have it delivered. Until that
happens, convenience shopping may win out more than cost savings (remember
part of the cost of something is the time it took you to find, purchase,
and take possetion of a product). The Internet to me is becoming both
convenience and cost savings shopping. I think that it has a lot of
potential. Maybe not for today, but 6-12 months from now, the
universe should change again :^)
Mary
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Date: 15 Aug 1995 07:42:55 -0700
From: [email protected] (Ted Haynes)
Subject: Pricing Web Links
I agree with Cliff Kurtzman that it is appropriate to charge for Web links -
at least when a site which draws many visitors adds a link to a smaller site
that is likely to get additional business from the link. But what pricing
model should be used? (This will shortly become a real-world issue for my
client, not just an academic one.) Some possibilities:
1. A link is a link is a link - same fee for any link. (Does anyone have
an example of a fee that has been charged?)
2. Traditional advertising model - fee based on: a)the number of visitors
who come to the original company's site (or visit the page on which the link
appears - this is like circulation of magazine or audience of a TV program),
and b) on the prominence or size of the link (like size of print ad or the
scheduling and length of a broadcast commercial). Pricing by number of
visitors makes sense but making the text identifying the links different
sizes or sorting the links by anything other than subject is an
unnacceptable burden on the person viewing them.
3. Negotiated price - fee based on the "value" of the link to the smaller
company. This may be the most appropriate model from an economist's point
of view but charging different companies different prices for the identical
service gets into all kinds of sales, marketing and legal problems.
Any answers? Where does anyone think the industry will wind up? /Ted H.
Ted Haynes, Author of "The Electronic Commerce Dictionary"
[email protected] http://www.haynes.com
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Date: 15 Aug 1995 07:45:22 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: An alternative to the Web
Another lurker surfaces....
Telnet should not be necessary to offer a confidential wholesale price list.
I work in the publishing business, where there is extensive electronic
interchange between publishers, wholesalers, and retail bookstores, most of
it by direct EDI connection, but some over the net.
I would suggest a simple HTML form on your Web site that says something like
"to view our wholesale price list, please enter your account number. If you
do not currently have an account with us, please e-mail the webmaster at
[address] with a brief description of your business and a temporary number
will be provided for you."
I'm sure you have a record of account numbers with your existing customers
that could be accessed with a simple CGI script, and you could have a generic
"password" number to give out to prospective customers that just want to
check you out.
Is this more than marginally secure? No. Does it need to be? Probably not.
Yes, an individual customer could make a concerted effort to pose as a
business and get the price list, but why would they? And so what if they did?
Think about it; couldn't anyone get the same information from your company
with a few sly phone calls?
We worry about Net securtiy much more than we need to. Any street person
sifting trash can come up with more credit card numbers than the craftiest
hacker will ever uncover on the net. Further, there are legal limits on
financial liability that protect both the consumer and credit card company.
The Net is an inherently more secure place than the real world, and
inherently more secure than the public assumes.
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Date: 15 Aug 1995 08:35:35 -0700
From: [email protected] (Jeroen Doucet)
Subject: Re: Media Question
[email protected] wrote:
>For my final thesis i'm struggeling with an (in my opinion) interesting
>question.
>
> "What kind of medium is internet ?"
>
>I think this must be clear before one can start a marketingcampaign on the
>net.
>For internet there isn't one yet (?), but still everybody is
>marketing on the net.
IMHO I think it is a mistake to try to give the Internet the label of *a*
medium. It is not a medium in the sense that it has characteristics that are
the same for everybody who uses the medium. In the traditional media 'a
medium' was defined throughout all layers (of the OSI model for example).
For the Internet that can only be said of the transportation layer: TCP/IP
is the only common denominator of Internet applications.
So it would make more sense to try to compare different applications with
traditional media. The M-bone for example comes pretty close to regular
broadcasting (allocution) and the WWW comes closest to print media, although
the aspects of interactivity (the ability for sender and receiver to change
roles) and the hyperstrucure make it a whole new ball game.
Especially with applications like WorldChat (http://www.kaworlds.com/) and,
to a lesser extent, Java (http://java.sun.com/) this will change even more.
Then the convergence is really taking place and media and telecommunications
are truly becoming one.
Your best theoretical starting point IMHO would be a traditional matrix
(like Bordewijk & Van Kaam, 1986. Also mentioned in classics like 'Mass
Communication Theory' by McQuail). This matrix typifies media in four
categories depending on who is the information source (central or
individual) and where is the control of time and content (central of
individual). This would make clear that the Internet can be anything,
depending on the needs and preferences of the people using it.
The Internet can be used for almost anything in Marketing. It enables you to
attract attention, to get exposure, to inform your clients, to keep in
contact with your clients and to give your client aftersales. The only
question is how *effective* is it to try to do these things with the
Internet right now. But that is NOT dependent on the characteristics of the
medium, but on the way people use certain applications.
Since you from the Netherlands (like me), I would advise you to try to talk
to some of the people currently working on Internet marketing in the
Netherlands.
Jeroen Doucet
Jeroen Doucet
[email protected]
Office: (+31) (0)3406-65800 Facsimile: (+31) (0)3406-62893
X-400:I=JDO;G=Jeroen;S=Doucet;O=DDV;PRMD=GNS-X400;ADMD=400NET;C=NL
Member of Instant - http://huizen.dds.nl/~instant
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Date: 15 Aug 1995 10:22:32 -0700
From: "TOM VASSOS MBA BES" <[email protected]>
Subject: Update to WEB DIAMONDS(tm) #8
As you recall, the WEB DIAMONDS(tm) #8 report focussed on
search tools for Listserver and USENET groups and content.
I have updated that report with a couple of more sites
that can search USENET groups. Here's the update:
"Since Dejanews does not cover all USENET news groups, you
may want to try a free trial account at InfoSeek which
does cover all USENET newsgroups:
http://www.infoseek.com/
Or try out the BETA Program for infoMarket Search which
can simultaneously search all 13,000 non-binary newsgroups,
The McKinley Group database of Internet sites, and the Open
Text Web Index (a comprehensive listing of Web documents):
http://www.infomkt.ibm.com/
(Disclaimer: IBM site)"
AND HOW WAS YOUR DAY?
=======================================================================
TOM VASSOS, B.E.S., M.B.A., Part-time Instructor, University of Toronto
Internet Writer, Educator, Speaker: Call for courseware, keynotes, etc.
Manager, Internet Marketing Strategies, IBM Software Solutions Division
E-MAIL: [email protected] PHONE: 416-448-2189 FAX: 416-448-2893 ©
Of course I don't speak for IBM or the U of T, I have enough trouble
speaking for myself. This note is brought to you from Toronto, CANADA
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Date: 16 Aug 1995 07:28:44 -0700
From: Tonny Yu <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Comparison shopping with the Web
Dave Asprey wrote:
>
>Most *companies* don't want to be judged solely on price, but for most
>purchases, *customers* will buy from the company with the lowest price.
U.Vision.Inc has researched how consumers choose which computer products
to buy and how they decide who to buy from. We have identified over
90 measurable factors which most affect how consumers pick the computer
products that they buy and the merchants that they buy from.
Price is a very important factor and always a decision
criteria. Consumers have a limit to what they will pay for anything.
However, I believe it is often NOT the most important factor. Within
a certain range (e.g. 10%), price becomes a non-issue.
Other criteria besides price are difficult to communicate. Price
is the easiest to understand.
Dave Asprey wrote:
>In the past, it wasn't worth the time to call around to find the lowest
>price on a purchase, so people generally found a company with good
>service and shopped there.
>
People buy based on logic and emotion. The logic part dictates that
you try to maximize benefits while minimizing costs (i.e. save time
and money). Emotionally, you want to feel good about buying
something.
Calculating costs and benefits is inconvenient and time-consuming.
The net will make it easy to shop for the best products for your NEEDS.
The net will allow people to maximize benefits and minimize costs instead
of focusing on just one factor, price. Focusing only on price is just one
of the limitations of current Agent Technology.
Agents also face technological barriers. The agents take a long time for
each site. They do not tell you if the computer store next-door,
which does not have a catalog on the net, is selling the product for
half-price. Also, the sites are already overloaded by a handful of
Agents.
Can you imagine the results if agents searched 20,000 sites for 90
different factors?
Mary Morris wrote:
>I look forward to the day that I can do real comparison shopping over
>the net. Unfortunatly for me, most of the best deals come from small
Please excuse the plug, but that is one of the Internet services that
U.Vision will be offering soon.
==========================================================
Tonny Yu U.Vision.Inc
President The Visibility Provider(sm)
[email protected] http://www.uvision.com
(415)369-1002
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Date: 16 Aug 1995 14:39:09 -0700
From: [email protected] (Josh Reynolds)
Subject: Visceral sizzle or WADD?
POST I
After our one week sponsorship of this Digest I'm pleased to
report the following preliminary results-
1- Ad ran for one week for $500
2- Ad resulted in over 1000 new domain visitors (20,000 hits)
3- Traffic resulted in the following
> downloads of THINKfast Mach I Brain-game-- ~400
> online Brainpower Analysis (eg IQ test)-- ~300
> visits & postings to the Brain Board-- ~500
4- Projected Revenues from product upgrade registrations-
____________
~$1600-$3200
In the TV & magazine direct-response field a 2 to 1 revenue-to-ad cost
is acceptable, 3 to 1 a hit & 4-1 a miracle. Our famous ThighMaster
ad with Suzanne Sommers ;-0 was a $100M hit with less than a 3 to 1 return.
Our Inet Mktng sponsorship could produce 3- 6 to 1!!!
So why aren't more of you sponsoring this great digest?
- ------------------------------------------------
FROM: Internet Marketing discussion mailing list
>Digest #0412
>Date: 13 Aug 1995 11:34:04 -0700
>From: [email protected] (Peter Arguelles )
>Subject: Re: Linking to Competitors
>
>I have a decent site; my content is pithy, if terse; and my pricing
>kicks ass. Links to the few competitors I've seen would reveal my site as
>>perhaps more replete. *But why lose the prospect when he's already in
>your lair?*
You will if you don't also offer them some *visceral sizzle*.
In the direct-response TV marketing field emotional appeal
is just as important as intellectual content... especially
in holding the viewer. In cyberia where we all have WADD
(web attention deficit disorder) presentation (content & graphics)
that triggers an emotional response is most likely to
hold 'em at your site.
>My years -- too many years -- in sales regard this as tantamount to sin.
>Ninety-nine percent of the effort was getting them there: Have you ever
>tried to walk away from a used car salesperson in the middle of
>negotiation? Their price drops fast (better a small sale than none). In
>car sales the first rule is:"I'll be back" is NEVER true. In every other
>sales the first rule is:
>
> Don't let them walk out the door.
From our perspective 99% of the effort is to give 'em quality
& depth while they're there in hopes they'll come back.
If you build it & advertise/link/PR it *they will come*... but
will they transact, will they come back?
Comment on links::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
The TV & print direct-response advertising field grew up
on PI (per inquiry) DR ads. Remember the early JS&A 'Products
That Think' & the Sharper Image ads in the airline mags? The
vendor payed for the space with a (negotiated) % of sales.
Why should it be any different selling a product off a web site?
How do you really know that a $12,000 wkly link with GNN is worth it?
What could be more equitable than paying your link provider a %
of sales from leads that originated from their site?
In closing, hundreds of you Inetizens apparently downloaded
our brain-game THINKfast. We need to know why, or why not,
or why you haven't upgraded?
Please e-mail me your comments & we will give you a FREE $40
password to upgrade the Game (& the rest of your brain ;-).
Or go grab a free download off our site, give us your comments
& we'll still give you a $40 password!
This offer is only good for a week from this posting.
Content AND marketing feedback are king... and we
need each other for the latter!
Thanks-- Josh
*::::::::::::::::the BrainTainment Center:::::::::::::::*
: Home of the World Brain... the web's 1st brain-server :
: Brainpower Bell curves by country, organization, sex :
: & profession... free brain-games plus IQ test on-line :
: BrainTainment Resources, Inc. SmartWare for Your Brain:
*<[email protected]>::::::::::::::::<http:/world.brain.com>*
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The Internet Marketing Discussion List is sponsored this week by:
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d.b.Express - data visualization and decision support tools
with point and click ease.
Free 30 Day Trial at website - http://www.pb.net/~dbexpress
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